Map of countries with bans: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0b/Burka_ban_world_map.svg/1024px-Burka_ban_world_map.svg.png

        • Civility [none/use name]
          ·
          4 years ago

          BumpInTheNight's quoting an article on the Xingjiang ban from an English language CPC news site almost word for word:

          Lawmakers in the Xinjiang Uygur autonomous region have passed China's first legislation on anti-extremism to prevent terrorism from spreading in the region.

          The regulation, adopted on Wednesday by the Xinjiang People's Congress, prohibits people in the region from wearing full-face coverings and long beards, which are deemed to promote extremism.

          -New Xinjiang regulation aims to prevent extremism, Mao Weihua and Cui Jia in the China Daily, 31/03/2017

          Doesn't make it any less gross, but they originally tried to post this in c/sino and it got deleted, so I assume that's what they're talking about.

            • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
              ·
              4 years ago

              As far as I have understood from hearing from Uighurs is that neither face coverings nor the specific beards referred to(Basically long ass under the chin) are traditional to Uighurs nor have been common before the influx of Wahhabism in the region, this is different from France or other countries banning people who have long standing traditions in their specific culture to wear these things. Now you may disagree with the policy on principle and thats a fine stance to take, but its not honest or correct to make these two policies into the exact same.

              This is similar to when accusations arise of forcing Uighurs to drink alcohol, there are long standing traditions of home brewing wine in Xinjiang among the Uighur, there is no reason to force anyone to drink alcohol cause for the most part they already do, unless again there is influence from traditions outside of Xinjiang and the Uighurs.

              This whole post really feels more like an attempt of dishonest dunking on people rather than an honest and good faith discussion about China and Xinjiang, if you wanna discuss these policies then discuss them, don't make a bait and switch where its really obvious anyone reading will think of France and then go "Sike its actually Xinjiang bet you feel foolish now".

                • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  I can't exactly call you a liar since I don't know what you know or don't know but the threads structure is really suspect, and again, I made other points that you could meet about the specific situations and reasonings for the laws made in Xinjiang.

                  • BumpInTheNight [none/use name]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    specific situations and reasonings for the laws made in Xinjiang.

                    The reasonings are about extremism/terrorism

                    • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
                      ·
                      4 years ago

                      Yes, what do you think about them?

                      It feels like you are doing this neutral facade cause you came in prepared with articles and archive links but you don't really seem to have an open opinion about it.

                      • BumpInTheNight [none/use name]
                        ·
                        4 years ago

                        Most hotly debated issues have valid points on both sides:

                        Valid points for the ban: It oppresses women, it's not required by the Qu'ran, women never choose to wear it, hiding your face is creepy in many valid cultures

                        Valid points against the ban: anonymity is good, women do choose to wear it, cultural freedom

                        • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
                          ·
                          4 years ago

                          But in this specific situation also the things mentioned are not part of the actual traditional culture of the region and the people, but something deliberately spread by a more extreme tendency of the religion. Like if one of the christian sects like the Jehovas Witnesses or whatever started spreading far more conservative traditions and values into a region with no tradition of them. I would say that creates a special situation where religious freedom is of course hurt and there probably are immigrants who have this as their traditional culture who may be hurt, but also that this is a step in undermining a very real attempt to spread extreme traditions and tendencies by foreign groups and powers.

                          • LibsEatPoop [any]
                            ·
                            4 years ago

                            Hey, could I get some sources for the Uighur culture not having long beards, drinking wine, not covering faces etc? I'm currently reading through this site and the laws and stuff cited there do make China appear really bad.

                            • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
                              ·
                              4 years ago

                              I wish I had a solid source but mainly its just shit I've picked up on from time to time reading about this stuff, most of the sources on Uighur culture either seems to be in Chinese or Uighur or written specifically by defectors which means its most likely got a ton of bias going on.

                              Im pretty sure that site is run by a rabid anti-china guy tho.

                          • BumpInTheNight [none/use name]
                            ·
                            4 years ago

                            But in this specific situation also the things mentioned are not part of the actual traditional culture of the region and the people, but something deliberately spread by a more extreme tendency of the religion

                            Does that make it more justified or less?

                            • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
                              ·
                              4 years ago

                              In my opinion it makes it more justified since it is a consequence of an outside culture deliberately trying influence and radicalize the traditional culture in order to make it more conservative and drive up conflicts. As opposed to basically every western country that has done or considered this where its a refugee wave of people who have had this culture as their tradition for ages thats now being suppressed solely because of islamophobia and white supremacy.

        • GalaxyBrain [they/them]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Are all Muslim dudes actually wearing fake Halloween costume beards? If so that fucking rules and I'm converting

        • Huldra [they/them, it/its]
          ·
          4 years ago

          It's not even correct to what he is referencing, he is trying to reference a piece of legislation that itself references irregular/abnormal beards in terms of what Uighurs traditionally wear vs what might be a possible sign of influence from wahhabism or other more extreme tendencies that arent traditional to Xinjiang.