For context, this is an infamous scene from Gundam where a girl asked the 'protagonist' out and he responds by ripping her invite in half and saying "I'll kill you"
Most normal people find it funny because it's out of nowhere, ridiculous and cringe. Incels find it funny because 'cruelty to femoid is funny. Take that lowly feeemale'
Anyway, theres a lot of media, particularly 90s' media and anime, that show verbal abuse towards woman, usually the love interest, and even to this day the response from a lot of young men who grow up with it is "Wow what a chad, putting that slur in her place!" Then we wonder why a lot of dudes grow up to think abusing women is good and cool, who get mad when it turns out in real life a lot of women don't like assholes that treat them like shit (but incels will still claim that they do like it because they grew up with media and advertising that tells them they do.)
Also, what's the deal with these guys thinking anything friendly girls do is fake?
BTW, how many of you tried to press that play button? :owl-wink: gottem
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e2S4q581-To
what’s the deal with these guys thinking anything friendly girls do is fake?
I think it's that for a lot of people, it's easier to intentionally sabotage relationships by assuming the worst of people than to acknowledge and improve the things which cause them to accidentally sabotage their relationships when they give it their best shot. If that makes sense.
More than that they don't like women. They don't like "women's" interests. They would, if they could choose live entirely separate and speciated from women. However their brains are fried by isolation and hardcore pornogrophy. So they do want to have weird sex with women and they are only capable on interacting on that level. They don't want friendship and having women around only reminds them of their romantic failures.
It's a lot easier to mask failure with cynicism. If they think they're gonna strike out with a girl anyway, it's "best" to assume that the girl had shitty motives in the first place.
Kind of a preemptive sour grapes.
Slightly off topic, but that scene is completely insane. Heero Yuy is supposed to be undercover as he wages covert war against Oz and he just acts like a huge creep and threatens to murder a politician's daughter. I thought Gundam Wing was really smart and mature when I watched it on Toonami as a kid, but it's kind of idiotic.
Though I have a lot of nostalgia for it, Wing wasn't the most well-written Gundam. Hiro has multiple character arcs, and they're all basically the same thing: he decides he wants to die for the cause, then he decides that living for the cause is better, and he has this same conflict again in the movie, all without his character ever changing.
That said I do like that despite their romantic tension Hiro and Relina never get together.
Yeah I'm sure most of it is ironic, but ironic sexism is still kind of shitty.
I mean the alt-right started out as 'we're just ironic nazis'
It’s the norm for guys to be the ones approaching girls, so the result is that girls tend to choose from a large pool of willing partners.
So they're acting on a false assumption then. This is only the case for girls that look models. Attractive dudes have an easier time dating too.
So, they will conclude that if a girl is nice to you, it means she’s trying to see which guy has the best response/behavior before closing the deal with him.
That's normal human interaction? When you first meet someone, you're polite because you have no idea whay kind of person they are. Do these people not understand what a date is?
or she’s taking advantage of him because there will always be a line of guys for her to choose from
Gold diggers make up a very small percentage of women, so this is a very strange thing to assume every girl is out to get you. Or that they have men throwing themselves at them. Again, only if they're super hot does this happen.
Again, I'm not sure what incels want from women, they complain if they don't try to be nice to them, and assume the worse if they do. :shrug-outta-hecks:
Yeah you can't really win with them it seems
stange
God damn it Dirt_Owl, learn to spell :bird-screm-2:
I’m not sure what incels want from women
well, they don't understand that either.
the issue here is a bit more complex than lack of experience with women, though.
To start off, friendlyness is heavily gendered in our society. Many cis people aren't aware of that, but it's a huge part of how we're trained to behave. If you get socialized in a male gender role, friendlyness is driven out of you from a very young age, you are trained to become more callous, competitive, guarded, emotionally shut off and dominant. If you are socialized in a female gender role, you are instead raised to be agreeable, submissive, collaborative, approachable and vulnerable. My biggest step in socially transitioning so far has been to reject that part of my upbringing as a boy to the point were i can now almost cry on command. Few things have been as liberating as letting go of these stereotypically male behaviors were i fake being tough and abrasive. I'm saying this as somebody who, even pre-transition, would've been referred to by your typical incel as a soyboy beta cuck numale mangina or however they call people who aren't bristly hypermasculine psychopaths - i never felt comfortable with male gender roles and always thought of myself as some kind of feminist, i've spent a long time trying to find ways to be more open and honest with people, searching out social circles where i could act more friendly than expected of me, yet i had to reject being a man completely to truly free myself from this emotional impoverishment and that process is still ongoing after one and a half years of knowing i'm not a cissie. This goes deep, it fucks with people's heads royally and incels are definitely no exception.
Now there's things like politeness, joviality and so on, codified and "safe" ways in which men are allowed to open up and interact on friendly terms. not everybody raised as a boy is a brash, rude dickhead. The thing is, a typical incel socialization also involves a ton of bullying, or other things that destroy their ability to love themselves and be loved by others. This makes it harder to trust people, particularly when it comes to accepting signs of friendlyness and affection as genuine. They cannot imagine that somebody is honestly kind to them. It has to be a trick to set them up for greater humiliation or otherwise manipulate them. When you view yourself as absolutely unlovable (and incels are more or less defined by exactly that, adherents of the "manosphere" ideology who think they are doomed to a life as an "omega"), somebody who is nice to you must be faking. Otherwise, you couldn't be a blackpilled omega permavirgin - and incels are very adament in defending that they are just that and will be nothing but that for their entire life.
Lastly, there's the problem of projecting too much into friendlyness from women, combined with only valueing women as possible romantic partners. Back in the day, /r9k/ incels used to have this "she wants to fuck" meme, where they'd ironically list normal, polite behavior such as "hands me my order at McDonalds, smiles tells me to have a nice day" in a greentext format, finishing with "she wants to fuck". That was all tongue in cheek, but they are so starved for affection and their idealized version of true love that they fall into thinking too much of friendlyness very quickly. See also their obsession with "ending up in the friendzone". All interaction with women is shoehorned into either being the first meeting with their later tradwife or being worthless.
It's not illness, plenty of us neurodiverse comrades manage to not be sexist bullies.
Maybe you're right, that it's not an actual illness, but rather them being socialized and hit with a cocktail of anti-femminist propaganda, right wing ideology and their own material conditions getting worse and worse. I just have such a hard time understanding how you would get to these conclusions, that I am tempted to make the liberal mistake and chalk it up to mental illness.
ITT (Post is cool tho): The normies perform 15 dimensional mental gymnastics to blame mentally ill individuals for their own suffering and validate the current ruling ideology using incels as an easy target. "Because we all know that being well functioning and mentally healthy is a virtue and those who aren't are thus bad and deserve pain, because look at the consequences, they are spiteful pieces of shit towards women1"
Unfortunately these incels are a case of individual who this still doesnt apply to. They are often "losers" as defined under capitalism: financially struggling, afflicted with mental illness, depressed, and isolated. And they very well know this, they oscillate blaming themselves for their dismal condition and intense rage towards those who they see as helping cause it, ie. women.
Thus like Libs and Chuds, they engage in the narcissistic self-flaggelation endemic to liberal subjectivity except amplified to new heights due to the nature of their particular echo chamber. With only the stunted virtue system of neoliberalism to judge themselves by and collectively revel in pits of self-pity, self-hated, and seething rage on their forums.
Because of course they would, this is the only thing they know makes sense to them, the only thing that is available to explain away the misery they feel and in a sick roundabout way make the world a just, understandable place with the parameters given to each and all by the capitalist education system. They have every right to feel the anger that they feel, its just misdirected towards the wrong people.
As a result from a humane ethical framework the evil comes from their hateful actions towards each other and primarily women online and potentially in real life due to being first and foremost uneducated and brainwashed.
I am not saying that their actions are any less evil or harmful, far from it, such behaviour is totally unacceptable. The point of issue comes from the fact that their behaviour definitely does not arise due to the blossoming of a fundamental seed of evil that being mentally ill and different somehow plants within the human brain. If our world was just and fair then yes, but we all know: it is not.
Also to answer: "Also, what’s the deal with these guys thinking anything friendly girls do is fake?"
because in their worldview, women are evil automata that only have programming to have feelings towards "successful" men. Therefore if a girl is "nice" then its just her being uppity to get with chad or whatever, they need divine intervention
I don't think I ever brought up mental health. Plenty of sexists like this are 'Normal' and successful under capitalism. I think assuming these youtube commenters are mentally ill is a stretch
Even if we're talking about mentally ill men, There are plenty of socially awkward and mentally ill men and women that don't engage in abusive behaviour.
Oh absolutely thats the point, mental illness doesn't predicate being abusive and shitty. Like the post is cool but its just the comments in the thread by normies who assume that incels as a whole are abusive because they "havent worked on themselves enough" or some bullshit along those lines. No its because their ontological framework basically amplified everything that our disgusting culture told them about life up to 9000% and ran with it, is the problem
Yeah, incels are a product of thir environment just like everyone else I guess, but so is my landlord, so we don't by any means 'gotta hand it to 'em'
I mean, sometimes people that do 'nice things' are actually trying to fuck with you. Re: abusive relationships. Incels just ramp the reaction to that up to 10000% and lash out at anything nice.
For example, I have a relative that thinks he can do a hardcore transphobia but if he bribes me with food or something it 'pays' for his misconduct.
Incels deserve no special kindness. I don't really care what led them there, I care that they are actively perpetuating harmful rhetoric to women. Many men feel the alienation that comes from a cold, capitalist world and don't turn to misogyny. Our many male comrades prove that
The point of issue comes from the fact that their behaviour definitely does not arise due to the blossoming of a fundamental seed of evil that being mentally ill and different somehow plants within the human brain
You're carrying so much water for people who are ultimately hateful in the same ways as other people we dunk on. Why do incels deserve special consideration?
No im not saying they are morally righteous at all, I think they are entirely in the wrong and their worldview is fundamentally flawed in multiple harmful ways.
My point is that the reason for this isnt because they haven't "managed" their mental illness or whatever, because this implies that all mentally ill people are original sinners who can become demons if they aren't careful.
Why do you assume they're mentally ill though?
They're just straight up bullies picking on women because it makes them feel good.
Because that is what some of the replies here have stated overtly or via implication, that incels are mentally ill and somehow havent been able to manage their symptoms therefore this leads them to commit these acts of cruelty.
An example would be: "I hate the modern/liberal idea that any “dangerous” behaviour is just due to mental illness within the individual, but for InCels there are literally no other options than just straight up illness."
I didnt go address this specific comment because id rather address the brainworm by itself.
I didn't get that feeling from them, but I can understand feeling attacked over being neurodiverse, being on the spectrum myself. Fwiw i don't think anyone here is implying there is mental illness at play.
Just edited the comment to include the following example: "I hate the modern/liberal idea that any “dangerous” behaviour is just due to mental illness within the individual, but for InCels there are literally no other options than just straight up illness."
I didn't see that one, yeah it is a bit shitty. I see what you're trying to say now.
My point is that the reason for this isnt because they haven’t “managed” their mental illness or whatever...
Gotcha, then yeah I agree with that
joined 1 day ago
you know exactly what im talking about and the fact that reading this made you incensed enough to break your opsec and comment truly shows how effective criticizing your ideology is
yeah not because you are trying to extend sympathy to incels, touch grass
a willful misinterpretation of my point.
As I have pointed out in the comments below, I am not being sympathetic towards incels.
I think they are entirely in the wrong and their worldview is fundamentally flawed in multiple harmful ways. My point is that the reason for this isnt because they haven’t “managed” their mental illness or whatever, because this implies that all mentally ill people are original sinners who can become demons if they aren’t careful.
Go back to kiwifarms.
i cant tell if they're contorting their viewpoints to laughably make the situation not look like an emotionally abused child character misinterpreting an advance of human empathy towards them as an irony laden joke or not.
no, they're probably complete straight faced in thinking this is a cool thing to do
The scene felt like an homage to "Gone With the Wind", if the story had been mistranslated and then passed by word-of-mouth through an office of Japanese anime nerds.
This whole setup is intended to highlight the melodrama among the aristocracy on the eve of a disastrous war. But its being pitched to an audience of 90s-era 6th grader boys in the guise of a cartoon about battling giant robots. So you get a few compressed scenes intended to set the stage without boring an audience that doesn't actually want to watch a 19th century romance novel.
Other anime have adopted this opening framing, too. The first three episodes of the original season of JoJo's Bizarre Adventure had a similar vibe, for instance. So did Samurai 7 and Code Geass.
But thirty years later, you've got a more (ahem) mature audience that really does just want to watch Rhett Butler seduce ditzy dowagers at ante-bellum ballroom gatherings. Now they're getting the context and the reference implied in the specific scene. They've just forgotten the entire rest of the narrative beyond which this scene is supposed to feel trite and regrettable.
Pride and Prejudice and Gundams
Also it has to be remembered that Hiro isnt a suave debonair man about town, he’s a 14 y/o purpose raised to fight in a guerilla war by an old man with 4
friendsformer work colleagues who had the same idea
what is a secret grind spot? because it sounds hilarious.
It's that gay bar downtown. You know the one.
It's called The Pepper Mill.
The sequence of events for a gay man's joints in their thirties.
:agony-deep:
First off, I thought the first comment there was being intentionally humorous until I saw the mention of 'fake niceness."
Also, what’s the deal with these guys thinking anything friendly girls do is fake?
It's simple projection. These dudes go out there and do the nice guy routine and when it doesn't work, they try this sigma bullshit.
So when they see a woman being genuinely nice they see it as a manipulation tactic because they're unable to see or be someone genuinely nice. Without any hidden angles.
They've deluded themselves into thinking that all women are just as predatory as them and those 'nice women' are especially heinous because they remind them of themselves. They see women like that as being just as manipulative as they were.
Also on some level, I think they hate themselves and know it on some level so anyone who's nice to them is put into a binary.
Either:
"She likes me for me (as a piece of shit) and is a bad person who should be punished."
or
"She doesn't like me for me (as a piece of shit) and is trying to trick me, making her a bad person who should be punished."
Instead of reflecting on their feelings and fixing themselves, men like this put all of their hatred of themselves onto women and find any way to justify it.
Edit - I didn't mean to write an essay, but there it is. Essentially it boils down to capitalism making people see people as exploiters or as people to exploit and anything that confuses the two is seen as bad.
Their understanding of being 'nice' is transactional. They're treating kindness as currency because capitalism turns everything into currency.
How could they give selflessly while holding onto capitalism? They can't.
Capitalism turned women into property and opportunities for land acquisition or free labor. Of course chuds (and right-wing politicians in general) want tradwives to serve as maids and baby factories.
I can go more into this and the ways that capitalism damages men and women in different ways and how this shit happens in childhood, but I think I want to pivot to people outside the binary and why they're so hated so much by these same people.
Conservatives hate LGBTQ people and anything that questions their idea of what gender means.
Women working and living independently (not being exploited).
Men being genuinely nice (being exploited(
Same sex partners (who is the one being exploited?)
Nonbinary people (are they someone who I can exploit or someone who can exploit me?)
Trans people (changing role from exploiter or exploited)
By virtue of existing outside those norms of exploitation perpetuated by capitalism, people who don't play that game are seen as harmful to their way of life, and by extension, capitalism.
But that's the cool thing. By refusing to play those games, anyone can destroy capitalism, at least on the micro-level.
It’s like that scene in Airplane! where the female passenger is having an anxiety attack and everyone else takes turns slapping her
Don't this dipshits act like the "feeeemales" they complain about?
They think they deserve special treatment for being the gender they are and like to casually disrespect people who have done nothing wrong other their little princess complex. But then call foul when the other sex hates their sex. Imagine if this was a clip about Esdeath stripping a guy and forcing him to lick her boots, and the comments were full of "that's how you treat a moid." The internet would flip its shit.
Some people need a good punch in the face and are lucky SoBs that laws actually apply to the left. (Totally not a fed trying to get someone to do adventurism, trust me. Would you sus your old Pal ScotPilgrimVsTheLibs?)
Also how fucking sad is it that they cannot see genuine kindness? Either they've never seen it, or they were conditioned to see it as a trick.
It doesn't excuse their abusive behavior at all. However, it makes me really hate capitalism that much more.
Think of the queer polycules we could have out there if people weren't so hung up on land ownership.
just go to the party and hide, or say you're busy that weekend, or say "thanks but I'm not interested" or...
why is being kind so difficult?
