But also, I don't think people are saying men are inherently or biologically dangerous because of their literal man-ness. Rather, men are socialized by the ideology of patriarchal-masculinity in a way that makes them dangerous. Every man was once a sweet little boy, part of the process of "growing up" is to mutilate boys' psyches until they become men. Men are made to be violent, aggressive, controlling, domineering, and dangerous. Masculinity is its own kind of trauma, every man carries that baggage with him and has to cope with it.
"Not all men" actually misses the point, in that every single man is socialized this way and have been since we invented the social technologies of family, private property, and the state. We have to assume any given man is dangerous because it's too fucking dangerous to give them the benefit of the doubt, so if a man approaches me at night I'm going for a weapon. That's not his fault, it's not my fault, it's just the way it is.
Look, I don't really want to respond to you here. This thread isn't about this issue, and I didn't want to make it one. I sought merely to offer a minor guardrail against a claim that I found incorrect.
I will only respond to one point: Nobody in this thread said men cannot be raped, that's true. I wouldn't say anyone in this thread has been sexist against men; I don't agree with the other dude who was in here complaining about it.
But the idea that "literally nobody ever said" that men cannot be raped is false. It is, unfortunately, a commonly-held belief. Here's a study which mentions it as a "male rape myth" (section 1.2): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8258646/
I will not be responding to any further comments on this issue. I hope you have a good day, and I'm sorry that you found my point disappointing, but I don't think I was wrong.
I really do not comprehend why you went off on this tangent about sexism. You just described that its misandrist to ascribe 'feminine' traits to men, but in reality it is misogynist (re: women are described or implied as inferior in the examples given). I'm not understanding how your description of male SV ties into the discussion here. As an aside a similar phrase is often something misogynists say on reddit, 'feminists don't care about male SV', so thats why you're receiving a hostile response. The concept you're referring to is a legal definition, and that definition defines SV acts as requiring penetration of the victim. Of course this is an awful way to define SV, but is it sexist towards men specifically? No, ultimately this is bad for all victims of SV, as acts of SV can often be multifaceted and perpetrators often know the rules and laws surrounding them and try to skirt the definitions. Women that are attacked sexually are often maligned in much the same way as men are with similar excuses and reasoning.
For the cases of woman to male SV, often society says things like 'wow that teenage boy sure was lucky getting with that female teacher!' It is of course an awful thing to say about an SV victim, but this statement also relies on the objectification of women. Re: women are objects to be desired, how can an object cause you mental harm?
Since we are both victims of sexual violence, and as a trans woman I have had the situation of dealing with SV pre and post transition (so being seen as a boy or a woman in many instances) I hope you can take my analysis of this issue seriously. This is very mentally taxing for me and I'm sure it may well be for you, so I understand if some things are said improperly. This is not said to minimize your suffering, but rather to show the intersectionality of SV victims and how misogyny shapes social opinions of SV victims.
edit: talked with sphere, this is really just a case of bad context i think
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fuck off into the sun, debate nerd
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okay, then just shut the fuck up.
You can't be sexist against men.
But also, I don't think people are saying men are inherently or biologically dangerous because of their literal man-ness. Rather, men are socialized by the ideology of patriarchal-masculinity in a way that makes them dangerous. Every man was once a sweet little boy, part of the process of "growing up" is to mutilate boys' psyches until they become men. Men are made to be violent, aggressive, controlling, domineering, and dangerous. Masculinity is its own kind of trauma, every man carries that baggage with him and has to cope with it.
"Not all men" actually misses the point, in that every single man is socialized this way and have been since we invented the social technologies of family, private property, and the state. We have to assume any given man is dangerous because it's too fucking dangerous to give them the benefit of the doubt, so if a man approaches me at night I'm going for a weapon. That's not his fault, it's not my fault, it's just the way it is.
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You can't be sexist against men for the same reason you can't be racist against white people.
Just let it go dude, the defensiveness a bunch of my fellow bromrades are expressing to this thread is really fuckin disappointing.
Do better fellas.
This is just fuckin misogyny dude, this is not sexism against men.
Literally NOBODY ever said this and the fact you bring this up as some sort of point is sus as fuck.
Look, I don't really want to respond to you here. This thread isn't about this issue, and I didn't want to make it one. I sought merely to offer a minor guardrail against a claim that I found incorrect.
I will only respond to one point: Nobody in this thread said men cannot be raped, that's true. I wouldn't say anyone in this thread has been sexist against men; I don't agree with the other dude who was in here complaining about it.
But the idea that "literally nobody ever said" that men cannot be raped is false. It is, unfortunately, a commonly-held belief. Here's a study which mentions it as a "male rape myth" (section 1.2): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8258646/
I will not be responding to any further comments on this issue. I hope you have a good day, and I'm sorry that you found my point disappointing, but I don't think I was wrong.
Edit: I will be touching grass for a while.
Good.
You:
Also you:
Fuuuuuuuuuuck you.
cw: sv
spoiler
I really do not comprehend why you went off on this tangent about sexism. You just described that its misandrist to ascribe 'feminine' traits to men, but in reality it is misogynist (re: women are described or implied as inferior in the examples given). I'm not understanding how your description of male SV ties into the discussion here. As an aside a similar phrase is often something misogynists say on reddit, 'feminists don't care about male SV', so thats why you're receiving a hostile response. The concept you're referring to is a legal definition, and that definition defines SV acts as requiring penetration of the victim. Of course this is an awful way to define SV, but is it sexist towards men specifically? No, ultimately this is bad for all victims of SV, as acts of SV can often be multifaceted and perpetrators often know the rules and laws surrounding them and try to skirt the definitions. Women that are attacked sexually are often maligned in much the same way as men are with similar excuses and reasoning.
For the cases of woman to male SV, often society says things like 'wow that teenage boy sure was lucky getting with that female teacher!' It is of course an awful thing to say about an SV victim, but this statement also relies on the objectification of women. Re: women are objects to be desired, how can an object cause you mental harm?
Since we are both victims of sexual violence, and as a trans woman I have had the situation of dealing with SV pre and post transition (so being seen as a boy or a woman in many instances) I hope you can take my analysis of this issue seriously. This is very mentally taxing for me and I'm sure it may well be for you, so I understand if some things are said improperly. This is not said to minimize your suffering, but rather to show the intersectionality of SV victims and how misogyny shapes social opinions of SV victims.
edit: talked with sphere, this is really just a case of bad context i think