I can't believe this is real lol
Throughout the debate, Destiny groaned loudly and twisted around in his chair. He put his hands on his face and rolled his eyes. The Twitch chat rolled along, arbitrarily scoring the debate and getting excited when either participant seemed to get mad.
“You’ve told me a bunch of things that capitalism isn’t. You’ve given me a bunch of random collected facts of history,” Destiny said after Wolff had given what he felt was an unsatisfactory definition of capitalism.
“Why would you talk about the history of it? That’s not relevant,” Destiny said, after asking Wolff why he refused to call the modern American democratic party a socialist party.
I've seen people IRL talk about him and Hasan. Truly the darkest of ages
Maybe it's my age and bias showing, but this article reads to me like "Richard Wolff, an adult, tried unsuccessfully to have a conversation with Twitch streamer 'Destiny', a literal child with obvious behavioural issues."
"Why should we bother to reply to
KautskyDestiny? He would reply to us and we would have to reply to his reply. There's no end to that. It would be quite enough for us to announce thatKautskyDestiny is a traitor to the working class, and everyone will understand everything."its honestly sad how we can just get quotes from 100 years ago and they are perfectly valid still
Eh. I wouldn't call it sad. The problems they faced 100 years ago are the same we face today. And the world turns another day :shrug-outta-hecks:
problems they faced 100 years ago are the same we face today.
and that is the sad part :deeper-sadness:
stalin shouldnt have stopped at berlin
Well I do think 27 million soviets dead told his brain to make peace.
If the nuke hadn’t been completed maybe he would’ve thought otherwise
From Wikipedia
Bonnell was notified in September 2020 that his Twitch partnership agreement would be terminated the following month for "encouragement of violence". The termination came as a result of comments made on-stream after the Kenosha unrest shooting, in which Bonnell expressed opposition to riots at the George Floyd protests. Bonnell said that "the rioting needs to fucking stop, and if that means like white redneck fucking militia dudes out there mowing down dipshit protesters that think that they can torch buildings at ten p.m., then at this point they have my fucking blessing..."[17][18]
I now care 0% for this person's opinions
Bout to say Richard Wolff would have done better talking to Hasan than this fuckin chud of all people (fash love rolling around in shit during debate)
Bonnell describes himself as an "Omniliberal", a phrase he uses to describe a person who believes in the core principles of liberalism, freedom and equality, whilst believing in elements of other ideologies in a "pragmatic way"
He ain’t lying. At least for the last part
I like when liberals come up with fantastical, dynamic labels to describe their perfect little curated ideologies where the core value is belief in nothing.
This is practically all they do. Libertarians also live in an odd universe where they write their own dictionaries and then expect everyone else to go along with them.
Leftist figures really need to stop interacting with dipshits like Destiny and :funny-clown-hammer: in good faith. I guess the idea is to try to convince people but I feel like the sort of weirdo who'd be in the chat isn't there to have their mind changed.
The problem is that there's no way to have a critical conversation in those chats. People just spam emotes watching two idiots making faces at each other (and I don't wanna give Wolff credit here because he should have known better). This has been your ML Touch-Grass-ism minute
No, I think Wolff truly thinks this is the kind of debate that is very traditional and is judged in that capacity. I don't think Wolff understands Twitch culture and internet culture like that at all where people literally think if you get passionate about the subject you are debating means you are losing (which is not a thing, you are allowed to be passionate about your subject). He does not understand the Reddit-debate-lord mentality because he is a normie, unlike us wierdos.
I think that was the last time Wolff did anything like this lol, I think there's a small story somewhere about how this debate even took place. Obviously Wolff misunderstood the purpose of it, I wouldn't put Destiny past approaching him under false pretenses.
I’m 30 and somehow never had any social media besides insta and Reddit (both since deleted).
I’m telling you people, just delete it all but hexbear.net. I promise you will all be happier
hasan is fine, destiny should be banned from using any electronic device younger than he is.
There are certainly heavier issues to care about than Hassan Piker and AOC, but the online left sure isn’t the place to argue that
That's not how a pipeline works, your average lib adjacent American teenager has to learn history and the terms to even begin to care about "heavier" issues, that's why people like Hasan are useful, I don't care if he's a millionaire, all that's required of him is he talks the talk to his glorified daycare center
You are allowed to not watch them and focus on other things.
I legit never heard of either of these streamers until people here posted opinions on them.
It’s really easy to not know who a twitch guy is if you just don’t pay attention to everything on the internet at all times.
I’m not doubting you. It’s just Hassan’s demo is children. It’s not a big deal that he exists. Some posters on here might be 19 year olds who learned about anti capital ideas from Hasan. Talking about how he sucks probably won’t hit with them.
What's the sexpest story? Is this about Paris Jackson? Also a little surprised Will Neff is a cia nepo baby.
he went to a brothel 10+ years ago somewhere it's legal and there are some people who really hate him who misrepresent that or pretend to care about capitalism indirectly coercing sex work (but not any other labor that is harder on your body, curious)
i hate that i know that
Im so glad I'm not the only one saying this. These internet celebrities are not your friend. The minute the cash cow stops is the minute they stop caring about you or your politics.
Okay. I just don’t think this is an issue anyone should be focused on. Far to many on the left feel they need to talk about to everything all the time.
End war, eradicate poverty, equality for all, pursuit of happiness for all. Our messaging needs to be condensed not expanded to include a list of things people are allowed to like and dislike.
Calm down Destiny, and no I believe you shouldn't watch parasites who pretend to have your political views but I can't make you do anything nor can you make me. There's no contradiction here.
Brb i need to resub to Hasan, the multi millionaire American leftist so he can buy more clothes he's 15 years too old to be wearing and gold chains. All so i can get him to say my name on stream.
No one’s telling you to watch. We’re saying talking about how you hate Hasan Piker when the topic is t even about him is probably not as valuable as you think. We all consume some form of media that isn’t perfect. I don’t think it’s productive to try and control what people watch and consume when it’s already more left leaning than 99% of available options in America.
We’re not going to get 11 year olds to read what is to be done.
Just tell me the twitch channel youre growing so i can subscribe follow and like
I’ve never been on the website. You seem overly aggressive, which probably isn’t helpful for organizing
no leave twitch streamers alone!!! subbed to twitch streamers dreams of being a twitch streamer
Isn't this proof enough that these internet debate people have no idea what they're talking about? Richard Wolff is an adult with decades of experience studying economics. He's a genuine expert on socialism. There is no debate to be had, he's the expert by virtue of his credentials and Destiny is some guy who plays video games for a living.
And yet they argued over the basic definition of socialism, which I always see liberals do. They always want to define it as "bad thing when there's a dictator and starvation and the government does stuff" instead of anything more complex or founded in history.
I'm not watching this debate and I'm a little disappointed in Dr. Wolff or whoever set this thing up for him for agreeing to it.
I think these debate formula is pretty tired in general. Wolff did a formal debate with Glenn Loury (anthor Ivy League Economist), and they just talked past each other for an hour and a half. I don't think Wolff is particularly "good" at debates, but I also don't think the format is very enlightening.
You're right there. All debates seem to end with both parties talking past the other and no conclusions. Even a "good" debate like Foucault and Chomsky had the two reach no resolution and talk in circles.
Most people who understand economics and ideology on a deep level are either nerds at some university or organizing a party, not debating people between gaming sessions
I wish Destiny could get back to gaming. But no one wants to see him lose at StarCraft 2 over and over.
I feel like analysing how capitalists behave (possibly using historical examples) is perhaps the best way of figuring out what the definition of capitalism is. idk
no capitalism is an imaginary set of conditions where everything is good. it's a set of rules I made up just now for how to be a good person and if someone's bad then it's not real capitalism. look at me I'm a liberal
Again, there is no point in debating trolls like this, they do not care about any arguments you make, they are amusing themselves and grifting off western anxieties about political instability
Hasan made the same mistake, the only proper way to respond to these people is to insult them, make fun of their fans, or better yet ignore them totally
Don't wrestle in the mud with pigs! No one, not even the hypothetical third party you want to impress is gonna care
Hasans a grifter too all of them are, once they no longer have to stream or youtube or podcast for money theyll show their true colora
Was it zizek who said to take their money and tell them to pound sand or was that Lenin :thinkin-lenin:
lol Honestly, Zizek is far more representative of the type of grifter I'm talkin about than someone like Hasan for instance
All you ever had to do was watch any of Destiny's old Starcraft II "pro" gameplay to tell that he knew nothing about economy.
Husky just began posting Starcraft content again on their YouTube channel again a few days ago.
supposedly husky used a lot of language that hasn't aged well and has or had a wife who was trying to do children-friendly media of some sort which is why all the old husky stuff had to go back whenever that was.
iirc, he also had some health problems at the time and ended up working almost full time on her channel
Destiny said, after asking Wolff why he refused to call the modern American democratic party a socialist party.
:blocky-wat:
A M A Z I N G
This guy is like a left-wing caricature of a "centrist". Also, didn't Destiny openly support Biden in 2020, who is a socialist, according to... Destiny?
But his fans will get furious if you even suggest that their guy isn't even remotely on the left.
Because Destiny is a turbo-lib and an idiot, he can't understand socialism as a process with widespanning goals outside just doing very particular economic/political actions, he can only understand socialism as like a checklist of government policies. Socialists would in the process of communization of the economy socialize medicine, therefore he thinks like 5 democrats who'd support medicare for all makes the democartic party a socialist party. The entire debate is Wolff trying to explain this to him and put capitalism in its place historically and why the definition of socialism varies depending on time and place (i.e. pragmatic materialist socialists have different ideas on how the process of socialism should be carried out, with the same end goal in mind), but Destiny keeps trying to epicly pwn him on the level of a Wikipedia article written by a Manitoban nazi.
Guy who believes in conservative propaganda of communism killing trillions and that’s a good thing
Vs
Guy who believes in conservative propaganda of democrats being communists and that’s a good thing
Awww come on! Don't bring up the history of crap-it-all-ism! PARTY POOPER! That's cheating!
Isn't the Democrat a bunch of socialists?! What do you mean they aren't! Oh are you playing the "real socialism hasn't been tried" card? Oh yeah gee I wonder why that is? Checkmate crap-it-all-ism! I get all my takes from Sean Hannity and Fox Buisness. I am very smart.
I’m pretty sure destiny thinks the democrats are socialists, and that’s a good thing
I have a soft spot for Wolff, respect him as a comrade and economist, but I really wish he would stop wasting him time doing this kinda shit and just go more mask-off in his communism.
Like fucking ignore these man-children. They're not worth your oxygen. Stop feeding the dumpster fire. I really don't this this radicalizes much of these people's audiences.
Debates are so lame! They only appeal to people in the center of a vent diagram where one circle says "fetishizes logic" and the other says "has pretensions of being an intellectual".
I know this from shameful experience.
Most debates are shit, moderators are slow or conflict averse to call out sophistry, people don't show up with agreed on terms and definitions.
You know what's superior to debates? Written correspondence. One person writes a letter, one reads it and takes day or two to respond, and so on. Cools the passions of the moment and allows for people to be their most eloquent selves.
I think the trouble is bad faith debate, debate among people legitimately trying to clarify a unified position and agree on a solution to a shared problem is a good thing
high school debate teams and the idea you can win a debate and their consequences
Debates can be great so long as you know how they actually work.
Aside from doing basically nothing they are proported to do, they are opportunities for:
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Raising your profile if you can get someone with a higher profile to debate you.
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An opportunity to share ways of thinking that are otherwise not platformed. We usually think of this as a downside because it's used to platform fascists, but we should understand that we are also in nedd of a platform and can use it to our benefit.
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Make the other person look like an idiot.
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Get paid money to just say things.
Obviously Wolff did bad calculus here, I think he thought this would simply raise his profile among internet gamer kids or something, but he didn't know what this audience responds to and defaulted to "professor teaches a class of 23 students" mode when he forgot to make Destiny look like an idiot.
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