Well that's easy. The Trumpist right was against NATO (because they were taking a free ride on the US taxpayer and sending back nothing but sneering contempt) and the left cannot possibly agree with them on anything lest they be contaminated by associating with low-status opinions. They must therefore be pro-NATO and pro-war. Even up to and including being pro-nuclear war. "Nuclear war is preferable to a Russian victory in Ukraine" is a theme I've heard from some very shocking places.
I spoke to a comrade who was active in the peace movement [in Germany] since the early 90s during an event once and he told me that (perhaps surprisingly due to the 90s image as the decade where the USSR was gone and History had "ended") indeed it's all downhill from when he started.
Lots of demoralization, lots of loss of manpower and the like over the years.
Why?
Well, the people were always given a choice whenever a conflict broke out: Do you go and protest against the military action against a country despite it often being rather unsavory?
Yugoslavia was denounced as committing a genocide. You go out and call for "hands off Yugoslavia!" and some people look at you and think you're supporting the SPS and Greater Serbian nationalism. Boom, some of the more radlib members leave in disgust and few people join to replace them.
Saddam Hussein was a nationalistic and corrupt dictator. You go out and call for the Americans to stay out, and you lose the libs that are happy Saddam's gone. Qaddafi had similar accusations against him, and it worked like last time.
Then there's Putin and the war in Ukraine. You all know what's said about Russia, and you all know Russia is very traditionalist and reactionary in other ways, with the added bonus of Russia escalating the war in February 2022 (which is seen as having started it in the eyes of most people). What happened from that? You guessed it, some people deciding peace is the goal (and it's achievable by winning the war)
The "they are the greater evil" strategy works wonders to split the peace movement. It worked in the last 30 years, it worked during the cold war (if perhaps less so, as the Socialist states were indeed way more peaceful and internationalist than the western bloc so the libs have to pick out some high profile cases of a seemingly contrary and emphasize them instead - like say the suppression of the 1956 Hungarian uprising.), it worked well during the old school imperialist era. "Do you prefer white civilization or cannibals that do human sacrifice and live in their own excrement" and the like. It even worked in feudalism, taking on for example a religious tone of fighting the infidels to reclaim the holy land.
And if you lose people, you lose the capacity to do stuff and it spirals into a downward trend and pro-war positions start seeming hegemonic.
We should not be surprised that it seems that we are very much on the defensive and who knows how to get out of it, but giving up would only make it worse.
the ideal would be to network with other leftists in your area and start to offer an alternative. Of course that takes time and a lot of effort some people might not even be able to do (because say bad mental health) and depending on the area might even be dangerous.
protesting against the war almost feels counterproductive since it just makes us look like a bunch of quacks
Antivaxxers have been spreading their views on the world for 20 years aided by a distrust in medicine paired with the for-profit nature of the healthcare system, so they gathered a fairly large crowd of anti-intellectual minded people. They were seen as cranks and still rightfully are, but when the Covid pandemic and vaccination campaign hit, they suddenly had thousands of people on the streets across Europe and were successful in sabotaging the campaign and encouraged politicians to make Covid restrictions a shadow of themselves.
Did that have a negative effect on the world? Yes, of course, but they were able to effectively educate, agitate and organize like we strive to do, even if they're out enemy or at least our enemy's friends.
Unfortunately the ghost of the Soviet Union still haunts us as well as the numerous defeats of the last 30 years and we have both lost the will and the credibility that we can make things better.
Who knows, maybe it'll take 20 more years for us or more (or less), but even in times of retreat and defeat the seeds of the success of tomorrow can be laid.
You are not wrong, but you are also making excuses for inaction. If things are so bleak, then what is to be done?
Nothing?
Just hoping that China, Climate Change, an even bigger economic crisis or whatever elseccomes and creates the conditions for revolution? What if that never comes? Is it back to doing nothing, because we're doomed?
Or is leftism just consisting of posting in Hexbear dot net and complaining that westerners don't want what we want?
Comrades need to understand the MIC and it's reach. The propoganda is hard and the CIA doesn't work for the people, they work for the bribers, which are the corporations. Familiarity with Manufacturing Consent will help many comrades and citizens understand this. I don't know how many leftists or moderates are aware or Manufacturing Consent and connect it with the MIC.
the left cannot possibly agree with them on anything lest they be contaminated by associating with low-status opinions
I mean, its a hard circle to square, because there's a ton of overlap in the high level messaging. Leftists and Fascists both value domestic industry. Leftists and Fascists both build support using populist rhetoric. Leftists and Fascists both value large-scale labor action as a means of leverage for their demands. And, as a consequence, both Leftists and Fascists advocate protectionist trade policies that shield their supporters from capital flight. Leftists and Fascists are both adversarial to international finance, particularly when the finance is controlled by social liberals with a penchant for culture-war rhetoric.
The underlying reasons for these rhetorical positions vary radically. And the implementation of policies vary radically. But when one or both exist on the political fringe, it can be difficult to draw a sharp dividing line between their propaganda until you get to the more radical wings of the movements. Moderate Leftists and Moderate Fascists present as nearly interchangeable, often by design, as Fascists love to smug reactionary views in under broadly appealing socialist rhetoric.
Liberals and Libertarians love to associate the two in tandem, using vague overarching Totalitarianism-versus-Freedom style rhetoric. And so Leftists - particularly whiter and wealthier Leftists - end up scrambling to unload Fascist baggage piled up by all the other competing political factions.
They must therefore be pro-NATO and pro-war.
I've seen plenty of Leftists thread the needle between Russia and NATO, precisely by staking an anti-war position as their primary goal. The Chinese have made this their diplomatic pillar. And on a global stage, it works well enough. None of the other surrounding regions - particularly in the Middle East and Africa - have any interest in this war continuing.
But in the US, where we don't suffer any of the social costs associated with an ugly war in a regional breadbasket or critical fossil fuel provider operating under sanction by the local financial regime, its far more difficult to explain how you can be "Anti-War" without being "Pro-NATO".
Well that's easy. The Trumpist right was against NATO (because they were taking a free ride on the US taxpayer and sending back nothing but sneering contempt) and the left cannot possibly agree with them on anything lest they be contaminated by associating with low-status opinions. They must therefore be pro-NATO and pro-war. Even up to and including being pro-nuclear war. "Nuclear war is preferable to a Russian victory in Ukraine" is a theme I've heard from some very shocking places.
I spoke to a comrade who was active in the peace movement [in Germany] since the early 90s during an event once and he told me that (perhaps surprisingly due to the 90s image as the decade where the USSR was gone and History had "ended") indeed it's all downhill from when he started.
Lots of demoralization, lots of loss of manpower and the like over the years.
Why?
Well, the people were always given a choice whenever a conflict broke out: Do you go and protest against the military action against a country despite it often being rather unsavory?
Yugoslavia was denounced as committing a genocide. You go out and call for "hands off Yugoslavia!" and some people look at you and think you're supporting the SPS and Greater Serbian nationalism. Boom, some of the more radlib members leave in disgust and few people join to replace them.
Saddam Hussein was a nationalistic and corrupt dictator. You go out and call for the Americans to stay out, and you lose the libs that are happy Saddam's gone. Qaddafi had similar accusations against him, and it worked like last time.
Then there's Putin and the war in Ukraine. You all know what's said about Russia, and you all know Russia is very traditionalist and reactionary in other ways, with the added bonus of Russia escalating the war in February 2022 (which is seen as having started it in the eyes of most people). What happened from that? You guessed it, some people deciding peace is the goal (and it's achievable by winning the war)
The "they are the greater evil" strategy works wonders to split the peace movement. It worked in the last 30 years, it worked during the cold war (if perhaps less so, as the Socialist states were indeed way more peaceful and internationalist than the western bloc so the libs have to pick out some high profile cases of a seemingly contrary and emphasize them instead - like say the suppression of the 1956 Hungarian uprising.), it worked well during the old school imperialist era. "Do you prefer white civilization or cannibals that do human sacrifice and live in their own excrement" and the like. It even worked in feudalism, taking on for example a religious tone of fighting the infidels to reclaim the holy land.
And if you lose people, you lose the capacity to do stuff and it spirals into a downward trend and pro-war positions start seeming hegemonic.
We should not be surprised that it seems that we are very much on the defensive and who knows how to get out of it, but giving up would only make it worse.
deleted by creator
the ideal would be to network with other leftists in your area and start to offer an alternative. Of course that takes time and a lot of effort some people might not even be able to do (because say bad mental health) and depending on the area might even be dangerous.
Antivaxxers have been spreading their views on the world for 20 years aided by a distrust in medicine paired with the for-profit nature of the healthcare system, so they gathered a fairly large crowd of anti-intellectual minded people. They were seen as cranks and still rightfully are, but when the Covid pandemic and vaccination campaign hit, they suddenly had thousands of people on the streets across Europe and were successful in sabotaging the campaign and encouraged politicians to make Covid restrictions a shadow of themselves.
Did that have a negative effect on the world? Yes, of course, but they were able to effectively educate, agitate and organize like we strive to do, even if they're out enemy or at least our enemy's friends.
Unfortunately the ghost of the Soviet Union still haunts us as well as the numerous defeats of the last 30 years and we have both lost the will and the credibility that we can make things better.
Who knows, maybe it'll take 20 more years for us or more (or less), but even in times of retreat and defeat the seeds of the success of tomorrow can be laid.
deleted by creator
You are not wrong, but you are also making excuses for inaction. If things are so bleak, then what is to be done?
Nothing?
Just hoping that China, Climate Change, an even bigger economic crisis or whatever elseccomes and creates the conditions for revolution? What if that never comes? Is it back to doing nothing, because we're doomed?
Or is leftism just consisting of posting in Hexbear dot net and complaining that westerners don't want what we want?
deleted by creator
LaRouche think LaDouche
Comrades need to understand the MIC and it's reach. The propoganda is hard and the CIA doesn't work for the people, they work for the bribers, which are the corporations. Familiarity with Manufacturing Consent will help many comrades and citizens understand this. I don't know how many leftists or moderates are aware or Manufacturing Consent and connect it with the MIC.
I mean, its a hard circle to square, because there's a ton of overlap in the high level messaging. Leftists and Fascists both value domestic industry. Leftists and Fascists both build support using populist rhetoric. Leftists and Fascists both value large-scale labor action as a means of leverage for their demands. And, as a consequence, both Leftists and Fascists advocate protectionist trade policies that shield their supporters from capital flight. Leftists and Fascists are both adversarial to international finance, particularly when the finance is controlled by social liberals with a penchant for culture-war rhetoric.
The underlying reasons for these rhetorical positions vary radically. And the implementation of policies vary radically. But when one or both exist on the political fringe, it can be difficult to draw a sharp dividing line between their propaganda until you get to the more radical wings of the movements. Moderate Leftists and Moderate Fascists present as nearly interchangeable, often by design, as Fascists love to smug reactionary views in under broadly appealing socialist rhetoric.
Liberals and Libertarians love to associate the two in tandem, using vague overarching Totalitarianism-versus-Freedom style rhetoric. And so Leftists - particularly whiter and wealthier Leftists - end up scrambling to unload Fascist baggage piled up by all the other competing political factions.
I've seen plenty of Leftists thread the needle between Russia and NATO, precisely by staking an anti-war position as their primary goal. The Chinese have made this their diplomatic pillar. And on a global stage, it works well enough. None of the other surrounding regions - particularly in the Middle East and Africa - have any interest in this war continuing.
But in the US, where we don't suffer any of the social costs associated with an ugly war in a regional breadbasket or critical fossil fuel provider operating under sanction by the local financial regime, its far more difficult to explain how you can be "Anti-War" without being "Pro-NATO".
Social democracy is objectively the moderate wing of fascism.