My favorite part about the liberals coming in here to muster a defense is how their only argument is “but Trump would be worse,” conveniently saying nothing about how they are literally advocating for genocide.
“But she called for ceasefire,” they cry, while simultaneously sending their daily billion dollars of bombs and ammo.
Also omitting how the DNC is clearly complicit with the GOP and will objectively not make things better, just worse at a slower pace. As shown by the last 50 years.
Their responses will get increasingly absurd and nonsensical the further this goes on. Behavior paralleling Israeli Zionists.
Oh look, it happened again, liberals aligned with fascists. Really weird how that just keeps happening over and over and over and over and over and over.
Who are the ones that want fascism again?
Bad Cop Worse Cop, and no matter how much you try to cooperate, Bad cop keeps doing all the things Worse Cop was threatening to do to you 20 minutes ago.
Exactly, and as turns out that any atrocity can be dismissed as long as there's a threat of somebody worse. In this way, they're admitting that the system is fundamentally broken since even a genocide can now be dismissed simply by pivoting to talking about Trump.
My favorite part about the liberals coming in here to muster a defense ...
have you also noticed the sharp reduction in shitlib takes on lemmy.world and them increasing on the rest of the lemmyverse? they're diversifying/spreading-out
For God's sake, liberals just want permission to enjoy something
Let them enjoy it, leave them alone about your 'genocide' or whatever
if it weren't for "@hexbear" in your user name I would have thought this was a serious lib comment
Who are you voting for?
I'm voting for Kamala Harris.
EDIT:
Not a single Grad or Hexbear user has given me a real answer. I really don't know how you expect to persuade people of your beliefs when you're this scared to have a serious conversation.
Im voting for Joseph ROBINETTE Biden because I have been assured he is the ONLY ONE who can SAVE US from TRUMP. I'm not going to be helping trump by voting for anyone else
Im voting for Joseph ROBINETTE Biden because I have been assured he is the ONLY ONE who can SAVE US from TRUMP. I'm not going to be helping trump by voting for anyone else
So like do you want to have an actual conversation or nah? You guys spend all your time talking about how communism is so genius and then I talk to people who are voting for "Joseph ROBINETTE Biden".
Who are you actually voting for?
Im voting for Joseph ROBINETTE Biden because I have been assured he is the ONLY ONE who can SAVE US from TRUMP. I'm not going to be helping trump by voting for anyone else
idk how else to say it buddy, the message has been received loud and clear. Anything other than full throated, vocal support of J.R. Biden is actually support for Trump. I'm not going to be tricked into voting for Trump by considering any other candidate (as, again, I have been assured ad infinitum by numerous Educated and Serious liberals that anything OTHER than a vote for Biden is, actually, a vote for Trump)
communism is so genius
p.s. actually I would argue that it is a prerequisite for actual, real democracy to exist. Speaking of genius... who's that? Why, if it isn't Albert Einstein!
Private capital tends to become concentrated in few hands, partly because of competition among the capitalists, and partly because technological development and the increasing division of labor encourage the formation of larger units of production at the expense of smaller ones. The result of these developments is an oligarchy of private capital the enormous power of which cannot be effectively checked even by a democratically organized political society. This is true since the members of legislative bodies are selected by political parties, largely financed or otherwise influenced by private capitalists who, for all practical purposes, separate the electorate from the legislature. The consequence is that the representatives of the people do not in fact sufficiently protect the interests of the underprivileged sections of the population. Moreover, under existing conditions, private capitalists inevitably control, directly or indirectly, the main sources of information (press, radio, education). It is thus extremely difficult, and indeed in most cases quite impossible, for the individual citizen to come to objective conclusions and to make intelligent use of his political rights.
Huh, wow, sounds to me like capitalism is an inherently authoritarian, anti-democratic system, by virtue of ownership of capital affording the capitalist class an inordinate amount of economic and political influence (as the major funders of political parties)
but idk I guess we should just go and vote in sham election propping up liberal bourgeois democracy despite the numerous indicators of its grievous failures everywhere, because that is Genius (tm)
but idk I guess we should just go and vote in sham election propping up liberal bourgeois democracy despite the numerous indicators of its grievous failures everywhere, because that is Genius ™
"I will fix the system by not participating in it."
Bold plan, good luck with that.
good luck with doing the same thing that hasn't worked! real brain shit
And what are you doing? Genuinely, you have not offered a single thing in this thread. What is your alternative plan? If you have nothing to offer then sit down.
Genuinely, you have not offered a single thing in this thread
have you? eat my dick balls and ass you dumb motherfucker
eat my dick balls and ass you dumb motherfucker
So is that the enlightened communist advice I've been waiting for or...?
Anyways you're right, I haven't offered anything yet, so here's the advice:
Vote for who you want to, and don't whine when one of the two major parties wins.
Vote for who you want to, and don't whine when one of the two major parties wins.
Absolute huge brain, thanks democracy understander
Vote for who you want to, and don't whine when one of the two major parties wins.
Is this an LLM output? I have a hard time believing anybody could be this stupid.
Which part of it is stupid? That you can vote for who you want to, or that a Democrat or Republican is being elected?
That you continue to completely misunderstand what all of these people are telling you. Nobody is going to whine when one of the two parties wins, we all fucking know that you child. We don't think it makes a material difference, which is why we're either not voting to endorse a sham fascist democracy, or if a third party like PSL is on the ballot we're voting for them. You keep repeating the same extremely stupid things based on a complete misunderstanding of our worldview, and the funniest part is you keep trying to do the condescending liberal thing.
This, by the way, is why nobody is really putting any effort into trying to convince you of anything. You haven't even understood the basis of what anybody keeps telling you and you're not making any effort to try to understand it.
Remember when you pretended nobody responding within a few hours meant you won? Eat shit, you mental child.
Yeah sorry I logged off for a day and I lost.
Have a good one.
“I will fix the system by not participating in it.”
Bold plan, good luck with that.
"Sure the controller is unplugged, but I can still beat the game"
Good luck with that
Not a vote for Biden??? That's a vote for Trump sweaty
Im voting for Joseph ROBINETTE Biden because I have been assured he is the ONLY ONE who can SAVE US from TRUMP. I'm not going to be helping trump by voting for anyone else
If you aren't still in line to
for her, its a vote for TrumpMy state hasn't approved De la Cruz for the ballot, I could write her in. I'm not sure how busy I'll be that day though so it's hard to predict what I'll have time for.
As a fellow nonbinary person, I'm disappointed you're willing to step aside and let fascists strip away rights of LGBTQIA minorities.
I hope that De la Cruz vote works out for you.
As a fellow nonbinary person, I'm disappointed you're willing to step aside and let fascists strip away rights of LGBTQIA minorities.
you mean the ones which have been eroded significantly with Biden in the white house?? huh, wow, let me think about that for half a second.....
I hope that De la Cruz vote works out for you.
hope voting for Hindenburg works out for you, Weimar German Liberal!
Also why do you think I'm stepping aside and letting the fascists hurt minorities? You said nothing to substantiate that. You just said I was doing that. Care to explain?
I won't, because you know why I said it.
Go to a local queer munch and share these ideas with your fellow minorities, interested to hear your results.
Meanwhile I'm voting for the party that doesn't want me dead.
Good luck with that De la Cruz vote, I'm actually laughing super hard at that one, it's very clever.
PSL also does not want you dead. I'm confused, I thought you wanted dialogue. I'm genuinely not sure what you mean. You can not believe me if you want but you haven't given any reason for what you're claiming.
Alright then we can continue this new thread.
Does the PSL have any chance of winning this year's election?
Heck I didn't know De la Cruz was running in that party.
EDIT: Apparently I was thinking of the De La Cruz people and Google have heard of (Elly, the baseball player), instead of Claudia De La Cruz, the socialist candidate I've never heard of in my life. I'm sure between now and November she'll figure out a way to clinch it.
They can win if you vote for them. I don't know how everybody is going to vote.
If we assume polling is an accurate indicator then depending on the state you live in voting at all is pointless because only one party will win.
Were you stepping aside and letting the fascists strip minority rights in 2020? Because they appear to be doing that currently, and presumably you voted for Joe who is president while that is happening.
The majority of hexbears are queer... we're just substantially more politically educated than shitlib queers like you.
we're just substantially more politically educated than shitlib queers like you.
I don't doubt that but your people skills are lacking if you change people's minds by calling them "shitlibs" and telling them you're substantially more educated than they are.
A lot of people on these boards with your ideology but the 4chan baby talk and meme spam makes it hard to take you seriously.
Sorry, but I'm not going to be polite to assholes who try to claim the moral high-ground by repeatedly telling my comrades they don't care about minorities because they refuse to support the genocide of other minorities.
Why would I operate under the assumption that you're acting in good faith when you essentially tell us
"oh, you're refusing to vote for a person who actively is making the world a worse place for minorities? You must hate minorities."
You are a shitlib. And you will remain one until you self-crit and dismantle your current way of thinking. When that day happens, we'll welcome you as a comrade. But for now, you are not someone I can take seriously.
Sorry, but I'm not going to be polite to assholes who try to claim the moral high-ground by repeatedly telling my comrades they don't care about minorities because they refuse to support the genocide of other minorities.
Our (realistic) options are unfortunately both going to lead to things continuing as they are in Gaza. But one of those options will be significantly worse for queer people in America.
You are a shitlib. And you will remain one until you self-crit and dismantle your current way of thinking.
Can you stop talking like you're terminally online for two seconds?
Do you know what is worse for queer people in the long run? Continuing to support the democrats. It stunts the ability for third parties to take hold in america. Parties that could actually represent minorities and fight for their rights. Because newsflash: the democrats don't give a single fuck if queers are rounded up and put in camps. They may pretend that's the case when republicans are in control (like they did with immigrants crossing the border) but when the time comes to actually push for legislation, or fight fascist policy, they can't seem to do a single fucking thing right.
Abortion rights continue to be stripped away under Democratic control. HRT continues to be banned in red states. POC continue to be disproportionately arrested due to the war on drugs, a series of policy decisions that Biden was one of the primary architects for, and simply legalizing cannabis (something biden refuses to do) would be a massive leap forward to fixing the problems he helped create. Many of the problems that you blame Republicans for, Democrats are equally responsible for causing.
It is in the Republicans best interest that Democrats remain the "opposition" party and in the democrats interest to maintain a strong Republican party. So they can scare fools like you into continuing to support them. Nancy Pelosi even talked about how "America needs a strong Republican party" and the dems continue to boost far right candidates because they wrongly believe they'd be easy targets to win elections against. All they're doing is giving fascist ideas a bigger platform. The main reason that Trump even won the 2016 election is because the "democratic" controlled media apparatus kept giving him attention!
Don't get me started on Kamala. Started her political career as a prosecutor throwing people in jail, namely parents over truancy. It takes a true Sociopath to want to throw parents in jail for their kids ditching school. You want me to vote for that bitch? Go fuck yourself.
Can you stop talking like you’re terminally online for two seconds?
Theyre talking like a communist in pre internet China and Russia when they talk about self crit. Sorry you've only been exposed to communist ideas on Twitter, maybe read any serious work-including the short works- on scientific socialism, dialectical materialism, or historical materialism
To be fair most prominent communists would have been god-tier posters.
Arguably were in cases such as (motions to Lenin's collected work)
I don't doubt that but your people skills are lacking if you change people's minds by calling them "shitlibs" and telling them you're substantially more educated than they are.
Nobody is trying to change your mind. Why do liberals have such a hard time understanding when they're being made fun of? Nobody thinks your opinion is worth arguing against, changing one liberal's mind is useless even if you were willing to change your mind and you know that you're not. Nobody's dignifying you with real answers because you're a clown beneath contempt who's just parroting the same dogshit every blue media source pumps out, you're not saying anything we haven't all heard a dozen times a day. So you're joke to be made fun of and nothing more.
I feel the same way I do every time I talk to a liberal in America- sort of the same way I feel when I talk to a child. Disappointed, mostly.
What is your line, what would Kamala have to do or promise for you not to vote for her?
For me it's promise to keep committing a genocide.
For me , it's promise to step aside and let Trump commit the genocide instead.
So nothing? All people are obligated to vote for democrats no matter what they promise to do? You would only not vote for her if she stopped running?
let Trump commit the genocide instead.
This is what it boils down to for you amoral liberals - you want the blue team to do the genocide and you'll only not vote for the blue team if they're going to let the red team do the genocide.
If you're trans and not a communist you need to spend more time engaging with your fellow queers who are poor and working class. And read more Marx.
the past hundred plus years of electoral politics really beg for the concept to be taken seriously, imagine voting in the most important election of your lifetime every 2-4 years for your entire life only to watch things get progressively worse anyway even when the "good" guys win, because even their best and wildest pipe dream policies if enacted amounted to about jack and shit
can't wait for the hope and joy Harris/Walz administration to finally forgive student loan debt for a small subset of borrowers who open and run a business in a disadvantaged community for 3 years! can you imagine being one of the three dozen people that amazing legislation would help??
oh, wait, I'm sorry, the parliamentarian is probably going to tell them 'no you can't do that' again and we will just have to grin and bear it, for the sake of civility
I take the concept seriously, but not you clowns.
If you cared about leftism as much as you cared about proper communication maybe people would listen to what you have to say.
But unfortunately you spam memes and reaction images instead of having a proper discussion and everybody tunes you out.
When a head and a book collide, is it always the book that's hollow?
The quote you're looking for is:
When a book and a head collide and a hollow sound is heard, must it always have come from the book?
― Georg Christoph Lichtenberg
Thanks, I now understand that they were paraphrasing instead of incorrectly remembering the quote.
So genuinely, do you think you've changed anyone's mind today? If not, why are you wasting this energy?
So genuinely, do you think you've changed anyone's mind today? If not, why are you wasting this energy?
why are you wasting your energy legitimizing a bourgeois government that does almost quite literally nothing for you when you could also choose to 1) not waste your fucking time and 2) radicalize others against this absolutely horrendous system?
you dumb motherfuckers are going to go all in on HARRIS WALZ HOPE AND JOY and shit because you're incapable of learning from previous mistakes. It's wild how this shit just happens over and over and over and over again and you stupid motherfuckers just keep playing along. Like absolutely wild how brainless you all are.
I'm just going to sit back and watch China continue to eclipse the entirety of western civilization at an exponential rate every year, unless you rabid, bloodthirsty pieces of shit condone nuclear war against them first
If you want to vote for someone who supports genocide, you do you pal. Maybe someday you'll realize that democracy in America is a sham and voting doesn't matter. But that requires doing the bare minimum amount of your own research, which you seem to be vehemently opposed to.
I recommend reading Noam Chomsky's manufacturing consent. Once you understand how you're manipulated by the government and media, then you may be ready for some communist theory.
If you want to vote for someone who supports genocide, you do you pal.
Who are you voting for?
So genuinely, do you think you've changed anyone's mind today? If not, why are you wasting this energy?
oh no all my energy, all my vital essence, it's fled me because I've trolled some shit-lib who, despite literally decades of evidence to the contrary, is clinging to the hope of electoralism saving us despite witnessing its constant failures
can't wait to argue with you in 4 years over the next issuance of red/blue fascism, because you're too fucking stupid to notice there's very little difference. "oh no the republicans want you dead" yeah and the neoliberals in the Democratic party don't give a shit if you are or not either.
you'd think shit like Newsom going all in on clearing the homeless would clue you people in but jesus fucking christ you are ignorant as fuck, literally incapable of engaging with politics beyond what you saw on MSNBC today
Not a single Grad or Hexbear user has given me a real answer
people saying voting isn't going to do shit: yeah I'm not going to tell you who I'm voting for
you: OMG
RUSSIANS!!!
They just told you. Why do you struggle to believe there are people who give our electoral system the exact amount of respect it merits?
It would look like one where people tell me who they're planning to vote for, for starters.
They're either not voting, voting for Claudia de la Cruz, or writing in Biden/Hillary/Obama.
Why does who they vote for matter?
Why does who they vote for matter?
Honestly I didn't think it did, but the fact that I can't get an answer makes me question it.
So I kept asking and continued not getting answers.
Anyways, who are you voting for?
Nope. But I view increasing the votes for PSL to be worth my minimal effort.
Not to mention rejecting the monoparty in a way that can't possibly be misread as apathy
Honestly I didn’t think it did, but the fact that I can’t get an answer makes me question it.
Then why did you start spamming it in the first place? Did you think you could troll hexbear? With a standard dem tactic?
Talk about chauvinism.
I suspect a significant percentage of very vocal individuals in Lemmy politics threads can't even vote in US elections because they don't live here.
oh man here we go! anyone with politics you don't like must be a foreign (russian!!) bot!
i'm from north carolina you fuckass
I more mean to imply there a ton of Europeans and Canadians on Lemmy. They seem to have a lot of strong opinions on US politics. I don't think you (or almost anyone else) are a Russian bot.
I technically live here because I'm in a secret Russian Posting Facility deep underneath a Midwestern mall, like in stranger things
I'm sure getting that feeling. They REALLY don't want you voting for Biden, but can't suggest an alternative voting option.
Weird. (Which also bugs them, for some reason.)
They REALLY don’t want you voting for Biden
Don't worry about all these people bud. I'm doing my part and voting for Biden this November.
Dude they don't have an alternative because US elections ARE NOT DEMOCRACY. Bernie sanders was the most popular politician in the US, was not elected president, M4A has majority approval across the country, has not happened, abortion is widely popular, it was overturned while the Democrats controlled house, Senate and White House. Stop acting like the fucking politics understanders when you fall the same Charlie brown routine every four fucking years.
They REALLY don’t want you voting for Biden
Bwahaha most politically aware liberal
Brain fart. Yeah it's been a long year. To be fair it's only been a couple weeks since you guys have had to paste Kamala's face over Joe's in your old memes.
What memes are you talking about? I don't waste time on election memes, I'm just here to repeat the
"You're playing a video game without the controller plugged in" metaphor.
Some serious mental gymnastics going on here with goal posts mounted to a Bugatti.
the mental gymnastics liberals have to do to ignore genocide without feeling bad
They don't even ignore it. Theyre at the point were they literally say they just don't want Trump to do the genocide instead of them
It's a good thing that the democrats saved abortion rights while they had three branches of government under control. Vote! 💅
Vote! 💅
For who?
Edit: Weird that I can't get a serious answer to this question.
you libs are like an overexcited puppy with a new toy, you're gonna rip the seams out of "wierd" within a week and then you won't have it any more
Yeah you're right it's getting pretty overused.
Anyways who are you voting for?
Real talk, nobody. Might put in for PSL if it's on the ballot. If you're interested, I have a number of reasons why.
Edit: lol nevermind, I read your comments in the rest of the thread and have determined that you are not a serious person
Good grief Charlie Brown, when will you ever learn.
Show
this meme but replace the bottom text with "and then when they get elected they don't do any of the good stuff they claimed and only reach across the aisle to bipartisanly do extremely bad stuff" and put a DNC button on the hippy
that is true, but it's still better to snooze the timer of the bomb than letting it explode. Currently the problem is still the first past the post system.
The only reason of letting trump win is if you are willing to gamble on his term resulting a violent revolution for the better.
I don't want fascist border and immigration policies, whether it's republicans or democrats doing it. Both are promising to do more of it, so I won't vote for them. I don't want a genocide in Palestine, whether it's democrats or republicans doing it, so I won't vote for them. I don't want an economic trade war with China, the nation that makes almost everything including the shit our own military uses. Once again, both are promising more of that, so I won't vote for them. I don't support prosecutors, so I won't vote for Harris. I don't support exploitative business owners or silver-spoon dipshits, so I won't vote for Trump.
There's no "snooze" on the bomb. Both of the parties are asking for your vote so they can detonate the bomb. You can't stop either of them from doing it, so why fucking endorse them?
At least one party isn't trying to ban EV's and makes some attempts for green policy, which is important with climate change basically already here. They also forgive some student loans for some people, funded an infrastructure bill, and give some increased child tax credits. Also isn't trying to hurt LGBTQ people in a federal level.
At least one party isn't trying to ban EV's
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/14/1251096758/biden-china-tariffs-ev-electric-vehicles-5-things
China is the largest EV manufacturer on the planet and make better and cheaper EVs than the extraordinarily expensive US-made EVs. But you're right, making it so only the wealthy can have EVs isn't technically banning them; it's just not any better.
makes some attempts for green policy, which is important with climate change basically already here.
Half and quarter measures are again no different from doing nothing at all. Pretend green initiatives that do nothing but placate soft libs who don't actually care about policy doesn't help.
They also forgive some student loans for some people, funded an infrastructure bill, and give some increased child tax credits. Also isn't trying to hurt LGBTQ people in a federal level.
They're not trying to protect LGBTQ people either, and everything else you just mentioned was done in name only, they're all complete failures compared to the promises of the Biden campaign.
So all it takes to get you to vote for genocide is faking doing good things without really actually doing anything.
Currently the problem is still the first past the post system.
I'm so sick of libs talking about this. That is not the problem. Your system is not broken. It is working exactly as its intended to work for the people it was designed to work for.
You can't reform a system exists solely to oppress you
Sure, Muslims are being slaughtered every day, children are being shot in the head while walking down the street, hospitals are basically halfway to being morgues, but how could you possibly hold anyone to higher standards?!?!
Expecting someone to be anti-genocide is way too far!
I'm staying in the race!
