I'm starting to think that my life is over and I don't want to live anymore. As of writing this I am a 23 year old woman with no qualifications or education. I have learning disabilities and my IQ is just 76. I struggle with things like talking, maths and spelling and I can't find a job.

When I was a kid I knew I was different. Things that were easy for the other kids to do took me ages to learn. Kids used to make fun of me because of the way I talked and in general I could fit in. As I got older my learning disabilities become more noticeable. I was diagnosed with ADHD and low intelligence and therefore struggled academically but my dad refused to put me in a special education program because he thought it would be an embarrassment. School was very hard for me. I would work my ass off just to get C's and B's and my father was very abusive. He would expect me to do well in school and if I didn't he would beat and punish me. I had to repeat the 7th and 9th grade but I eventually graduated but very poor grades and no qualifications. When I was around 15-18 started to do drugs like weed and alcohol just to cope.

I left my parents house when I was 19 and went to live with a friend. I have very little money as I'm addicted to drugs and my lack of education makes getting a job practically impossible. I don't see my life going anywhere and when I'm not on drugs I'm miserable. My brothers and sisters have done so much better then me and it makes me so jealous, angry and ashamed. I know this may sound cringe but I honestly can't do this anymore.

  • POTOOOOOOOO@reddthat.com
    ·
    19 days ago

    Hi. I hope my own experience can help you. I have a whole bunch of learning disabilities and very bad anxiety/panic issues. I graduated high school with a 5th grade reading level; and frankly I was pissed. No one should have fallen between the cracks as much as I did.

    I got stubborn and angry and I did something about it. I refused to let life just push me down and accept it. It's a bumpy, rocky, uphill climb. But you can do it.

    IQ doesn't mean crap. I encourage you to go out there. Walk outside. And be pissed off at everyone who told you that you were not good enough. Now imagine proving them wrong. Let that guide you a bit.

    Feel free to PM me if you want to talk. I've been in your shoes. It does 100% get better.

    • SpaceFox@lemmy.ml
      hexagon
      ·
      19 days ago

      Why does everyone think IQ doesn't mean anything? It does and you're insane for thinking it doesn't. My whole life I have been held back by IQ so it's very annoying to see people dismiss it.

      • Chulk@lemmy.ml
        ·
        19 days ago

        I understand how frustrating that must be. It sucks to have people tell you all of your life that you can't do certain things because of your intelligence and then have someone tell you it's "not real".

        I think most people who say this (including the person you're replying to) are trying to reassure you, not dismiss you. The origins of IQ are arguably racist/classist and the science behind it is disputed by many. I was told all my life that i had an above average IQ, but i never understood why. I didn't feel smarter than my classmates and I did poorly in school. I later learned that I did well on the IQ test because of my economic background and the resources that I had available to me from a young age.

        Intelligence is such a broad concept that we frankly don't fully understand yet. So the fact that we measure peoples intelligence and worth over a number is bullshit and dystopian. This is where the split in your experience comes from. You feel the effects of a low IQ because society values it too much. But most people know it's a metric that's used as a cudgel against others.

        In other words, I very much believe that you are treated differently and have fewer opportunities as a result of your IQ, but that's an indictment of our society; not you. On top of it all, it sounds like you didn't have the support network that other people have. Verbal and physical abuse from the people who should be our guardians and champions (your father) will stomp the spirit out of anyone.

        I know it might not be comforting, but I read your post and you didn't seem unintelligent to me. Sure, your sentence structure might be different than mine, but you seem like a thoughtful and connected person. What I'm missing, most likely, is the effort, time and energy that it may have taken you to write your original post, which i dont want to discount. But you're able to get your thoughts and feelings across just fine, at least in the form of writing.

        Alright, enough with the pep-talk. Do you have any interests or things you like to spend time with? Video games? Animals? Exercise? Drawing? Writing? Makeup? Anime? Cooking? It doesn't matter if you think you're bad at them -- I'd recommend pursuing those interests. Sometimes volunteer work opens up opportunities that you haven't considered. It can also help you create that social safety net that I was talking about earlier.

        I would try to get a job that gets you by (I know, easier said than done). Something like janitor work, fast food, retail, or hotel service. It doesn't have to be permanent, but just something to keep a cashflow while you give yourself time and room to grow. I'm not sure where your located, but I would check for non-profits or local orgs that offer assistance to folks.

        Don't let our psychotic and unhealthy society dictate your worth. You are a human being who has thoughts and feelings. Your ability to hold a job or quuckly solve a problem is relatively superficial.

        • SpaceFox@lemmy.ml
          hexagon
          ·
          18 days ago

          "Do you have any interests or things you like to spend time with? Video games? Animals? Exercise? Drawing? Writing? Makeup? Anime? Cooking? It doesn’t matter if you think you’re bad at them – I’d recommend pursuing those interests."

          I don't really have much interests tbh. Makeup is way to expensive and I don't have the ability to care for a animal. I don't really watch shows cuz I don't have the attention span. Same with art.

      • freagle@lemmygrad.ml
        ·
        19 days ago

        IQ only means something within a small subset of the establishment. It's a made up thing that is highly biased towards white European men. Yes, the system will hold you back if they determine you to have a low IQ, but for thousands of years people of all intelligences successfully lived in societies with others.

        You have to give up the belief that the system is the sum total of reality. It's the reason you wonder if your life is over at 23 - because the system is narrow and myopic and only has a little space in it and everyone else is pushed out. But the system isn't even half of real life, and when you find the rest of life by giving up on the system you'll find your life is just beginning.

        Carl Jung even said that life doesn't start until 40 - everything before that is just research.

      • alcoholicorn@lemmy.ml
        ·
        19 days ago

        IQ only measures how good you are at taking IQ tests. They recalibrate score every year to maintain the same distribution of scores within a year. (they change what each question is worth so every year 50% of tests get above 100, 40% of tests are between 85 and 100, 40% of tests are between 100 and 115, etc.)

        The impact is that they have to make the tests harder every year. If you applied modern standards to 1920, the average score would be ~70.

        What makes more sense to you, that 8/10 people today would be considered near-geniuses 100 years ago, or we got much better at taking IQ tests?

      • GarbageShoot [he/him]
        ·
        19 days ago

        Speaking for myself as someone who was dismissive, my best contribution to the answers here is that it's reductionist to a seriously misleading extent. It seems like you have a couple of conditions contributing to your struggle, but it all gets reduced to "your number is too low." As others have alluded to, how much of that is your adhd? How much is from some condition you may have that hasn't been diagnosed because you have been unsupported throughout your life? I don't think anyone is denying that you have real neurological conditions that hinder you, they just doubt low IQ as being a meaningful description of what you're facing compared to something that gives a better causal explanation.

      • POTOOOOOOOO@reddthat.com
        ·
        19 days ago

        IQ does not define your destiny.

        I don't know what my IQ is. Nor do I care what it is.

        You sound smart enough to ask for advice. I don't think your IQ is as low. Let's go through some steps. You can type, read, write, use the Internet, figure out how to get on the fedi, realize you have an issue, and you asked for advice. That's more than 99% of people can do. My parents couldn't do what you did.

        I was once told a story about an IT worker. They got called by a doctor about their mouse not working. The IT person tries to troubleshoot the issue with no luck. They go over to the Doctor's work station. The Doctor is trash talking them. The IT guy looks at the computer and realizes the issue instantly. The mouse is upside down. (This is a true story)

        We are all smart in our own ways. We all have talents and gifts. What can you do well? And if you don't know that answer; ask your friends. Take inventory of yourself.

  • Analog@lemmy.ml
    ·
    18 days ago

    You vastly overestimate the competence of the workforce in general. If you show up on time, work hard, and work to improve over time (don’t expect to be perfect! Just learn from mistakes!) you will be a coveted employee.

    Hopefully this leads to improved feelings of self worth.

    Reminds me of the YouTuber Mat Armstrong w/motto “Hard work beats talent.”

    As others have said, pick a trade. Make bank. Get some friends who value you for you. F everyone else. Not literally lol

    • tetris11@lemmy.ml
      ·
      edit-2
      18 days ago

      "You don't need to be smart, you just need to be useful."

      I live by this creed everyday and it's served me well. I don't count myself as smart, but I do have some skills that others dont and vice versa and that's enough to get stuff done

  • etchinghillside@reddthat.com
    ·
    19 days ago
    1. This doesn’t look like it was written by someone that isn’t intelligent.

    2. You’re probably self medicating yourself through ADHD and/or anxiety and it’s also not helping with the anxiety and/or depression you might be experiencing.

    3. 20s is prime “what do I do with my life” for most - and it doesn’t always go away as you age.

    • SpaceFox@lemmy.ml
      hexagon
      ·
      19 days ago

      "1. This doesn’t look like it was written by someone that isn’t intelligent."

      Thanks👍

      "3. You’re probably self medicating yourself through ADHD and/or anxiety and it’s also not helping with the anxiety and/or depression you might be experiencing."

      Idk why you're saying this I've been diagnosed with ADHD but not with anxiety. I've never been diagnosed with depression tho.

      "3. 20s is prime "what do I do with my life" for most - and it doesn't go away with as you get older"

      It's not that I don't know what to do with my life it's that I've got nothing to do with my life as I've got no resources. I have no education and the education I do have is pretty bad and I have qualifications for anything. There's a lot of things I wanted to do. I wanted to be a nurse, I wanted to go to university/college, I wanted be a programmer ect ect but I just couldn't.

      • kellenoffdagrid❓️@lemmy.sdf.org
        ·
        19 days ago

        I've been diagnosed with ADHD but not with anxiety. I've never been diagnosed with depression tho.

        I've got ADHD too, and I can see some similarities in how my struggles in school (influenced by ADHD behavior) led to constant anxiety, frequent depressive episodes, and overall poor self-esteem. It's pretty darn common for people with ADHD to have these kinds of issues because they're often told it's all their fault, when in actuality their community failed to give them the support they needed.

        There's a lot of things I wanted to do. I wanted to be a nurse, I wanted to go to university/college, I wanted be a programmer ect ect but I just couldn't.

        First off, it's really good that you have ideas of what you want to do, that's half the battle. The other thing is that these things can be achieved, they'll just take time. Just because you didn't do X thing before X time doesn't mean you're shut off from that forever, especially with things like getting a job you care about or going to uni. Those things can be built up to. Exactly how that will happen depends on your circumstances, but I know lots of people who worked a job they cared less about to support getting certifications or education, so it absolutely can be done. Having those aspirations is step one, so you're already in a position to keep going that direction. The big thing is to remember you've got blind spots and you don't know all your options, so doing research and asking help will help you get there.

      • Damage@feddit.it
        ·
        18 days ago

        Hey so, like the others said, you don't express yourself like someone with intellectual limits, so I'd really consider retaking those IQ tests with a specialist in neurodivergent issues. TBH tho, the reason why everybody's discounting your IQ results, is that it's a kinda bullshit number, the older you get the better you realize that.

        But aside from that, let me tell you that when I was your age, I was in a similar situation, maybe even worse: no education, as I had issues in school with bullying and I hated it since a young age, plus I had the usual "smart, but doesn't put enough effort" evaluation, I couldn't make heads or tails of maths, my parents filled me with more debt than I had any hope to repay and the state was taking anything I managed to save or buy with great effort.

        I never attempted suicide, but let's say that I took some mortal risks without caring for the outcome. But I held on, I did my best to help myself, worked hard and learned many skills, found a wonderful person who's been at my side for over a decade now, went back to school (which isn't very useful for someone who's already developing a career, but with a better teacher I learned that math isn't that hard, it can even be fun!), and now I live a comfortable life, make good money, and have people I love who love me back.

        I won't say that the ghosts of the past never visit me, or that I'm 100% of what I could have been, truth is what doesn't kill you doesn't necessarily make you stronger, it can also leave you maimed... I have many regrets, sometimes they keep me up at night. But all in all, I've been to hell and back and I've survived, if someone told me I'd be living like this when I was your age, I wouldn't have imagined how that was possible... And I didn't do anything particularly special, I just kept keeping on, put in the effort, and seized luck when it presented itself... most of the time.

        Some days you'll do great, some days you'll feel like you're wasting your potential or going nowhere, just keep at it, and you'll see it's not so bad, and it's not your fault.

  • kellenoffdagrid❓️@lemmy.sdf.org
    ·
    19 days ago

    First off, I'm so sorry to hear what you've been through. Your family (especially parents) failed you by not supporting you in your education and early adult life -- that's when people need the most support as they grow. Nobody deserves that, and I hope you're able to keep finding the support you need. It's a relief to hear you have/had a friend to live with, and I sincerely hope you're able to keep finding that kind of support.

    Hope is a difficult thing. It's often swayed by external circumstances, but ultimately it's a concept that you foster for yourself. Hope might be an irrational desire, but it's the reason anyone ever does anything. My outlook is that every person has potential to do good, and that potential is only "wasted" if they stop reaching for it -- that idea gives me hope for others and for myself. I've heard some pretty rough stories very similar to yours, but the common thread with many of them is that those stories didn't end there, they kept going and ended up somewhere. It just took them time; years, decades maybe, but it got them to a place where they were happier and more self-assured.

    Really, the biggest factor in all of this is time. I'm also in my 20s, and I've also made some mistakes that "set me back" a few years and had me in a similar place of feeling hopeless and incapable. The biggest part of all of this is that we're still very young, and the years it takes to learn and grow feel longer now than they will when we're old. I think it's important to see this part of your life as a time to make mistakes and struggle and hurt, but also as a time to slowly but steadily grow and learn and find your people.

    Your past happened and led you here. You had some say in it, but many of those factors of your early life were far outside your control, and now they're a done deal. But now, now is an important time. This moment is different from before: in many ways you have more freedoms, and while in other ways you'll still feel held down by familiar forces, now you have a different environment with different options that could build up to something better. This is what ultimately matters: doing what you can, in this moment.

    I know I may also sound cringe in this long-ass post, but I think cringe often a by-product of sincerity. I sincerely do have hope for you, even if you're a stranger, even if I don't know your whole story, even though what you've said is an absolutely horrible experience, I still have hope for you. Why? Because you showed a scrap of hope by even posting this. A truly hopeless person wouldn't care enough ask other people what they thought, but you did. That tells me you want a better life badly enough to keep trying, and that's a huge step.

    I hope all that philosophical/life outlook stuff I said helped you feel at least a little better. Even if it didn't, I really do mean it when I say I hope the best for you and truly believe you can get yourself to a place where you're happier. But I'm sure you're tired of my yapping about humanity and hope and potential, so I'd like to say something more materially helpful. The specifics depend on where you are, but I can list a few real things that you can do (or already have done) that can help you build some stability. All I ask is that you go through this list looking for things that might work, and try not to focus on what "won't work." I know I tend to focus on the latter when I'm struggling, so I hope this reminder helps if you do too. Now, here's some ideas that might be helpful:

    • Research some local resources. I'm intentionally vague here because there's a lot of ways you can go, but here's some resources to look into:
      • Addiction clinics and treatment resources. You seem like you don't love how drugs are affecting your life, so I think it's worth spending a lot of time and effort trying to find some treatment/guidance to gain back control here
      • If you have a public library, please look into the programs they offer. They're honestly the greatest public good in this world, and depending on where you are and how your library is funded, they likely offer lots of free online education resources and in-person workshops, some aimed at people entering the workforce. If nothing else, libraries offer a place to be, a change of scenery, books, movies, computers, and music, all for free. Libraries are pools of knowledge with people who genuinely want to help you learn, so don't pass them up.
      • Places for art/creative expression. Super vague, I know, but that's because this depends on what your interests are and your location. These kinds of gatherings and communities may be online too, but it's worth finding real people nearby first and foremost. Do you like music? Your city probably has cheap bars or house shows you can go to. Like drawing, painting, graffiti? Good hobbies on your own, but even better when done in a communal setting. Local cafes, restaurants, and other businesses might host artist gatherings. Into DnD, TTRPG, or other games? Same as before, local businesses probably host DnD/game nights, and these circles are often welcoming and have a lot of down-to-earth people. Whatever the case, finding places where you can see and express creative work is important for the human spirit. Plus, getting to know people keeps you sane and increases your "network," so you might stumble into new opportunities thanks to one of these connections. You can find these kinds of meet-ups through city websites and social media pages for your library and local businesses.
    • IQ is a scam and has no bearing on your worth. It's a shaky metric and it's validity has been questioned for years. Worst of all, it reduces you to a number; I don't care how "valid" a metric might be, it becomes dangerous as soon as it's used as a value judgement. Besides, you strike me as pretty smart considering you got grades in that B-C range under all that stress with zero actual support, and using a Reddit alternative tells me you're inquisitive. That matters.
    • Life might be a series of distractions, but those distractions can be great parts of your life. All this to say, if you don't already have a hobby or creative outlet of some kind, think about what interests you and find some cheap ways to fulfill that interest. Drawing is pretty accessible, you can even get most of the supplies for free if you keep your eye out. Making music is now very doable for free on phones or computers, see things like Bandlab and other online tools for free playgrounds. Writing can be done digitally or physically cheaply too. Reading is free thanks to libraries. Finding things to do that interest you are one of the biggest things you can do for yourself.
    • As someone who also has ADHD, I know how that can make everything harder. It takes time and you keep learning, but I know it's possible to build routines and structures that better mesh with the way your brain works. You're not in this alone.

    I've written too damn much now, but I hope something there meant something to you. I'm sure you've heard a few of these things before, but I know when I'm hopeless I need to be reminded what my options are. From one young person to another in a rough world, I genuinely hope you're able to find what you need. I'm proud of you.

  • PullPantsUnsworn@lemmy.ml
    ·
    18 days ago

    Your English is perfect. There is no indication of low intelligence from the way you described your issues. B and C grade are pretty average and indicates you can learn with hard work. I think what you might be experiencing is anxiety and that is causing you to think you don't have skills or intelligence. I am not from US so I don't know what kind of help might be available for you there, but I would suggest you to look for a job with something you like to do even though the pay might not be great and then eventually your interest will take you further in your career.

  • onlooker@lemmy.ml
    ·
    18 days ago

    First off, I'm so sorry you had that much pressure put on you in school. Your father should have helped you and instead he needlessly made things harder. One thing you should keep in mind is a saying I see every now and again: "Comparison is the thief of joy". You're not your brothers or your sisters and that's okay! You may have the same parents, but that doesn't mean you have to be clones.

    Distancing yourself from your abusive father was a good move and I applaud you for that! Parents who don't accept their own children, especially including their quirks and flaws, don't deserve them. It sounds like he wants you to be someone else, but tough shit: you're not them, you're you. And you have zero obligation to become this perfect person in your dad's head.

    And to answer your question: yes, there is hope. You got out of a bad situation and it sounds like you're still recovering. For now, forget math, grades and employment and just focus on getting better. Good grades and a stable job don't mean jack shit if you're miserable anyway.

  • electric_nan@lemmy.ml
    ·
    18 days ago

    You write well, and you got B's and C's in school. This tells me that you're smarter than you think, but abuse and/or lack of proper support has had an effect on your development and self esteem (which isn't surprising). You are still at a very young age, when a lot of people are still trying to find their way. I'm not saying any of this to minimize your struggles, but to give you at least a bit of perspective. A lot can change in a year or two when you're only 23!

    For specific advice on resources available to you, it would help people to know at least which country you are in.

  • solarvector@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    ·
    19 days ago

    You've already got some good advice but in no particular order:

    1. You are much more articulate than a lot of people. You can read and write better than a lot of people.

    2. You've been at least emotionally and physically abused

    3. You know how to work hard.

    4. ADHD is somewhat treatable with medication, at least improvable.

    What that translates to:

    1. no it isn't too late, especially if you keep working hard.

    2. the things you blame yourself for likely isn't your fault. Therapy, when you can afford it, should be a priority.

    3. working hard is so important for employment. Most jobs don't require high intelligence. Working hard with a good attitude and working with people is so much more important for most careers.

    4. learning disabilities suck. ADHD is hard. You can still learn coping mechanisms and find ways or a career that fits better with it.

    Life is hard. It's harder for you than most. It can still be worth living, but it will be up to you to find a way. I think you can.

  • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
    ·
    edit-2
    18 days ago

    There's a lot of good advice here. I have a son not too different in age than you. Your post made me want to give you a long hug. I'm sure you have many things about you that are assets and you haven't had anyone in your life to help you find them.

    As others have said, you sound smarter than you think you are, and your writing is good!

    Small steps, and celebrate the small victories. Make one little thing better about yourself or your life every day. No matter how small. And be proud of yourself when you've done so.

    Go take the good advice from others, but here's a Dad Hug™.

    Show

  • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]
    ·
    19 days ago

    Im too burnt out from work to offer anything much of real practical advise, but I just wanted to say you have value, I'm glad you are here and I was able to read your words today, and that you're loved Care-Comrade

  • YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    ·
    19 days ago

    Have you applied for welfare? You may qualify for food benefits (EBT card that pays for food) and general benefits (actual money). Say you are disabled. They will tell you to apply for Social Security benefits like SSI or SSDI. You can also get Medicaid/Medicare to help pay for healthcare like medicine for ADHD or therapy. This assumes you are in the US.

    • Max-P@lemmy.max-p.me
      ·
      18 days ago

      And also do it now because it's likely about to get a whole lot more difficult to access to services soon.

  • Fleppensteyn@feddit.nl
    ·
    18 days ago

    Try to start over. Go to a new place, try to meet new people, etc. I was in a very similar situation and just leaving it all behind helped.

  • Max-P@lemmy.max-p.me
    ·
    19 days ago

    I wouldn't exclude lower IQ as that major of a problem. Sure maybe it kind of excludes you from being an engineer or a lawyer or a doctor and these kinds of jobs. But there's plenty of low education jobs around, and there's no shame in that. If everyone was engineers and lawyers we'd have major problems keeping shops and fastfood open. My dad didn't finish school and raised me no problem, and lives fine. He might not be good at math or writing, but it's plenty for woodworking and being a handyman.

    As others have already pointed out, you're articulate and sound smarter than a bunch of people I've seen on Lemmy. I mean hell, you found your way into Lemmy, a platform that's still fairly niche and filled with nerds. You could have gone to Reddit but you came to the fediverse.

    Everyone have their strengths and things they're good at. Finding what you like to do is a good start. Some people inherently take artistic paths, and art has nothing to do with intelligence. What you need to do is figure out what you like to do that's pleasant and satisfying for you to do, and get out of your head that you have to go to higher education.

    Also worth noting, you mentioned ADHD. If you're not diagnosed for it or treated for it, in itself that can significantly lower your IQ scores especially if not accounting for that. When I had my ADHD assessment, they spent time measuring exactly how much my cognitive performance declines under conditions harsh for ADHD. I swear I struggled to figure out how to take the bus after that because I was so fried, was very glad I was too lazy to take the car that day. They noted, initially being well rested I performed really well then my performance tanked the moment they started hammering the ADHD. It's also important to understand IQ measures only one thing: intelligence. It doesn't measure empathy, communication, art, or anything else. That might limit you for intellectual jobs, but you can still be great a people jobs. You could be HR, you could be sales, you could be support. Some of the best artists I know failed school hard.

    Stop being jealous and ashamed. Those that shame you can go to hell, all they do is make you think you're worthless and inferior to them. Find your own path.

    • GarbageShoot [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      19 days ago

      If everyone was engineers and lawyers we'd have major problems keeping shops and fastfood open.

      Alright, this is a little condescending. I think OP can aim a little higher than that and frankly probably will need to if she wants a living wage.

      The fast food industry is basically a way for corporations to extract a pretty significant amount of labor value out of teenagers and the most desperate in society and all for the end result of contributing to society's bad health. It's not like society would collapse without it, unlike something like carpentry.

      Lastly, insofar as IQ is a valid concept at all, studies say low IQ alone doesn't prevent you from learning anything, it just makes it take longer to learn.

      Edit: I apologize if it comes off like I'm going off on you, I just felt some things were worth noting. I like the rest of your comment.

      • Max-P@lemmy.max-p.me
        ·
        edit-2
        19 days ago

        Yeah that's an intentionally extreme example. I've also seen garbage truck drivers being used in that context. The point is more that we need people on all tiers of jobs, even the literal shit ones. We need truck drivers, we need train drivers, we need people to pick up crops, we need people to take the trash out, we need people to maintain the sewers, we need people to empty out sceptic tanks. They're critical infrastructure, and one shouldn't feel bad because they ended up being a garbage truck driver. If you want a cozy repeated job and come home at 5 to your kids and family, that's perfectly acceptable.

        We put way too much emphasis on "success" and its connection to highly educated and high paying jobs.

        IMO the fact that fastfood jobs are considered temporary bootstrap jobs that you're expected to be exploited to hell is bullshit and an indication of the absolutely broken moral compass of the corporate world. We could do without fast food, but that doesn't mean we should pay them them minimum wage. Everyone deserves a livable wage no matter what they do.

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]
          ·
          18 days ago

          I appreciate your good humor since I think I came off as hostile

          IMO the fact that fastfood jobs are considered temporary bootstrap jobs that you're expected to be exploited to hell is bullshit and an indication of the absolutely broken moral compass of the corporate world. We could do without fast food, but that doesn't mean we should pay them them minimum wage. Everyone deserves a livable wage no matter what they do.

          I guess my perspective is that we're talking about what OP wants to do in the present world, not what she could do in a hypothetical utopia (or just fairer society). So yeah, fast food jobs could be less terrible and should be, but at the moment they are absolutely not something to aspire to or even to recommend in many places because, again, they don't even pay enough to live. Maybe OP is still living for free with a friend, in which case I guess it's better than nothing, but in general it seems bad as a survival strategy.

          • Max-P@lemmy.max-p.me
            ·
            18 days ago

            Ah I see. I wasn't using those as job suggestions but rather examples of jobs that are considered "loser" jobs and use those to drive the point that they're important too, and there's nothing wrong with ending up with those for your whole life. A job's purpose is to give you money. Trying to comfort OP by removing the "loser" label and not focus as much on "well you could go flip burgers" because that just doesn't help the emotional side of the situation.

            I wish her to aspire to do a little more than those, but even assuming she's as dumb as she claims to be, there's still options, some granted less good than others, but just as important to society. I do think she's got more potential than she thinks though, she reminds me a bit of my wife when I met her and now she's competing with me as DevOps/SRE.


            As another example: I'm autistic, I struggle with a lot of things. I make frequent use of DoorDash, I also hire cleaners every now and then to clean, and handymen to repair stuff in the house I just can't deal with on my own. All of those jobs, people shit on continuously, and me too because I can't manage some quite basic tasks. But using those services let me focus on what I'm good at, which is keeping thousands of computers happy. I make a fair bit of money which gets shared with all those that support me in being a productive member of society: cooks, waiters, delivery drivers, cleaners, trades. It's good for the economy, it's good for society. Those people deserve respect for their somewhat hidden contributions. Not having those people would ultimately make me fail, that would drag my employer with it, other companies wouldn't have the software they need to operate.

            Every one that contributes to society is important and valueble, whether people recognize it or not.