Now downvote me instead of providing an actual argument, or proof these camps are “invented”, because you’re a bunch of cowards who would rather parrot nonsense than read literally anything.
This isn't a source, this is an absolutely rambling manifesto.
What is the point of this document? It seems to be a combination of:
a) justifying the vocational camps by providing evidence that muslims can be radicalized... which is the exact same racist imperialist justificationf for war/power bullshit we always see....
b) discrediting some of the reporting of the muslims camps by attacking the credibility of the sources... which yes, is a legit point... but theyre talking about a few of literally hundreds of sources now.
c)going on a long tyrade about how nice China is to minorities... which 1) who gives a shit its irrelevant to whats happening now and 2) is propaganda nonsense.
Go out and actually SPEAK to some Chinese people. Go visit China. My chinese mates are the FIRST to admit that Chinese people are not racist, but the government itself is PROFOUNDLY racist...
As leftists, how you can basically ignore the plight of working class minorities... because of a hardon for their government... is pretty fucking lame.
The big, long document CLEARLY states the goal of these camps WHICH EXIST: "To strictly prevent and crack down on extremist terrorism" and to "Hold high the banner of solidarity of all ethnic groups, and promote unity.... and recognition of chinese culture"
So basically they ADMIT its happening, and say its happening because ooooh scary terrorism, but really theyre doing it to promote "unity" which means: "Everyone act like han chinese people so we dont fight"
This whole uigher denial stuff started in our community as a REACTION to reddit claiming it was a second holocaust --- which it is NOT.
We went over the top, in order to belittle them ironically for being so reactionary. They were blowing a bad thing: forced reeducation of 100,000s of minorities into: genocide of millions of people! Which is ridiculous because its out of proportion, and incredibly stupid given that America has literally murdered more muslims than LIVE in china...
But then everyone gets sent to chapo.chat for an echo-chamber treatment... and now the joke has turned into a bunch of edgy teenagers outright denying what is a very real, albeit slightly less devastating, human rights abuse.
Ya'll come off like holocaust deniers with your rambling google docs, and outright denial of piles of evidence its fucking embarassing.
Forcing people into the camps against their will for seemingly minor things like using a VPN isn't good obviously but
I have no idea to what extent were participants happy/unhappy with the program and
Mandatory schooling/vocational training for a year seems preferable to having terrorist attacks in the region every year (which has supposedly stopped since the program was put into place)
Also I haven't really seen anything to suggest that conditions in the camps are that bad
a) justifying the vocational camps by providing evidence that muslims can be radicalized… which is the exact same racist imperialist justificationf for war/power bullshit we always see…
You can disagree with their means of dealing with it but I really don't see how the justification of dealing with terrorism is bullshit considering the region did actually have a legit terrorism problem before the program was put into place. Do you think Xinjiang did not have a terrorism problem?
but theyre talking about a few of literally hundreds of sources now
A lot of the reporting I've seen tend to cite the sketchy stuff from Zenz, ASPI, state-backed human rights orgs, and media outlets associated with Falun Gong that gets debunked. Would be happy to revisit any of these sources or anything else that you think is legit.
My chinese mates are the FIRST to admit that Chinese people are not racist, but the government itself is PROFOUNDLY racist
I was under the impression the opposite was the case based on what happened with the Guangzhou covid incident (where the people were being racist and the government took steps to push back against it) and also on the affirmative action policies. I'd be interested in reading more about this if you could point me to some sources.
So basically they ADMIT its happening, and say its happening because ooooh scary terrorism, but really theyre doing it to promote “unity” which means: “Everyone act like han chinese people so we dont fight”
This comes across as a bad faith reading of their messaging. Again, do you think Xinjiang did not have a terrorism problem?
Like is people being knifed to death and blown up every year somehow not scary (and a reasonable explanation for their call for unity)?
Assuming you're referring to stuff like them being made to learn Mandarin, I think that makes sense as a way of giving people more access to job opportunities and also as a way of easing racial tensions in as short a time as possible.
K, start reading https://docs.google.com/document/d/1d0lynghlCnR6Hs57pypEEhlhHczFVgaYX-TIZD61s_w/edit
This isn't a source, this is an absolutely rambling manifesto.
What is the point of this document? It seems to be a combination of:
a) justifying the vocational camps by providing evidence that muslims can be radicalized... which is the exact same racist imperialist justificationf for war/power bullshit we always see....
b) discrediting some of the reporting of the muslims camps by attacking the credibility of the sources... which yes, is a legit point... but theyre talking about a few of literally hundreds of sources now.
c)going on a long tyrade about how nice China is to minorities... which 1) who gives a shit its irrelevant to whats happening now and 2) is propaganda nonsense.
Go out and actually SPEAK to some Chinese people. Go visit China. My chinese mates are the FIRST to admit that Chinese people are not racist, but the government itself is PROFOUNDLY racist...
As leftists, how you can basically ignore the plight of working class minorities... because of a hardon for their government... is pretty fucking lame.
The big, long document CLEARLY states the goal of these camps WHICH EXIST: "To strictly prevent and crack down on extremist terrorism" and to "Hold high the banner of solidarity of all ethnic groups, and promote unity.... and recognition of chinese culture"
So basically they ADMIT its happening, and say its happening because ooooh scary terrorism, but really theyre doing it to promote "unity" which means: "Everyone act like han chinese people so we dont fight"
This whole uigher denial stuff started in our community as a REACTION to reddit claiming it was a second holocaust --- which it is NOT. We went over the top, in order to belittle them ironically for being so reactionary. They were blowing a bad thing: forced reeducation of 100,000s of minorities into: genocide of millions of people! Which is ridiculous because its out of proportion, and incredibly stupid given that America has literally murdered more muslims than LIVE in china...
But then everyone gets sent to chapo.chat for an echo-chamber treatment... and now the joke has turned into a bunch of edgy teenagers outright denying what is a very real, albeit slightly less devastating, human rights abuse.
Ya'll come off like holocaust deniers with your rambling google docs, and outright denial of piles of evidence its fucking embarassing.
For the record, my view on the camps is that:
Forcing people into the camps against their will for seemingly minor things like using a VPN isn't good obviously but
You can disagree with their means of dealing with it but I really don't see how the justification of dealing with terrorism is bullshit considering the region did actually have a legit terrorism problem before the program was put into place. Do you think Xinjiang did not have a terrorism problem?
A lot of the reporting I've seen tend to cite the sketchy stuff from Zenz, ASPI, state-backed human rights orgs, and media outlets associated with Falun Gong that gets debunked. Would be happy to revisit any of these sources or anything else that you think is legit.
I was under the impression the opposite was the case based on what happened with the Guangzhou covid incident (where the people were being racist and the government took steps to push back against it) and also on the affirmative action policies. I'd be interested in reading more about this if you could point me to some sources.
This comes across as a bad faith reading of their messaging. Again, do you think Xinjiang did not have a terrorism problem?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xinjiang_conflict#2007%E2%80%93present
Like is people being knifed to death and blown up every year somehow not scary (and a reasonable explanation for their call for unity)?
Assuming you're referring to stuff like them being made to learn Mandarin, I think that makes sense as a way of giving people more access to job opportunities and also as a way of easing racial tensions in as short a time as possible.