This post has the same energy as "we should rename Communism to Super-Capitalism" and it reeks of liberalism.
Lov2 police people's political language without even so much as sputtering an alternative, leaving people in a mixed state of confusion and gaslighting.
"Please reinvent politics for me. No, I will not offer suggestions, and you're priviliged bigot for asking"
We can't just Lenin with today's morals! He would be a hero today and a hero back then, though.
It's like Nathan J Robinson's "you know socialism would probably be better off if it wasn't for Marx" . like bitch his analysis still rings true today, and what are you going to replace that analysis with?
NJR is literal dipshit who called Lenin a monster without any hint of nuance or historicity. His opinions are automatically discarded.
and what are you going to replace that analysis with?
Liberalism, because NJR is a liberal
When I want a chocolate scone, I go to a bakery and say "I would like one pastry please". The baker sometimes asks "which one?" but then I reiterate, "it's a pastry and I'd like one of them." They stare at me and start pointing at different kinds of pastries, but I get frustrated because they think I mean cupcakes and I'm describing scones. I don't want to use the word "scone" because it's a medieval word that just means "fine bread", so why wouldn't I just call it a pastry? The confusion between us is too much so I go back to my building and pet my animal.
Sorry, I'm not an academic. I don't have a Ph.D in biology so that term is needlessly descriptive and difficult to learn. Do you expect some farmer to know what a badger is? Some fucking farmer who doesn't know what dirt is? Just say animal. It means the same thing.
Please discard the tools that allow you to think about the economic relations within society. No, I will not explain
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methods of production
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working class
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owning class / big business
Struggle session: Language evolves
It does, but these are analytic terms. Using language that makes sense to ordinary people when talking to them about politics is great and obviously necessary, but just arbitrarily using new words for the same concepts within an analytic context means translating a whole critical traditional for the sake of saying 'method' as opposed to 'means'
Methods of production and means of production are two completely different things.
I'm not an economist, but as far as I'm aware they don't mean the same thing. Methods seems to refer the difference between, for example, artisanal production and factory production, while the means of production for Marx are the things (tools, machinery, etc.) that when combined with the labour of workers allows a commodity to be produced.
When we talk about seizing the means of production, we mean creating a democratic economy in which workers own and control the machinery/infrastructure that allows commodities to be produced and distributed. In a capitalist economy the means are alienated, and thus require seizing, because they are owned by the bourgeoisie/ownership class and that allows that class to steal part of the value that is created when the means of production are used by workers. That kind of alienation is inherent to capitalism because it is a system defined by the division of society into owning and working classes. In contrast, from a Marxist perspective, it doesn't make sense to talk about seizing the methods of production, because, the need to seize is generated by the alienation that comes from not owning the means of production, not from the method of production being used.
I do agree with you that language evolves and that we should use different terms when talking to people who are unfamiliar with Marx. But it doesn't make sense to just do away with the terms that we use among ourselves to analyse and understand capitalism, because these are the product of a long tradition of struggle and critique and provide a common vocabulary that allows us to use shorthands rather than having to explain each term that we use whenever we want to use it. It's jargon, but that's true of most language that is specific to a given community.
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I mean, “worker” and “people with all the money and power” work, but “means of production” carries a lot and idk what phrase works as well.
These are not alone the means of production though. The means of production is the sum of all these things, combined in a whole to generate products. I really don't understand why there should be a need to replace that term. It's not even really jargon, it's just... A description. It is everything that generates production.
Imagine talking about seizing the capital goods. It sounds significantly dumber. I don't understand why people shouldn't use it. "Proletariat" yeah, OK, it sounds kinda weird sometimes and working class is usually better.
I guess there's an argument here that words should be updated to match the times and make it easier to digest for people that aren't read on theory but on the other hand these terms have weight and meaning behind them and are reflective of texts about the politics of communism and such.
Means of production isn't even a "term". It's literally what they are. There is no other word for it and it's not an old term.
People complain about "means of production" and yet somehow "means of payment" isn't equally scorned. I wonder why . . .
Not to mention that every text you read will directly reference terms like this, so changing them only means you now have to work harder to understand the founding theory. The terms are solid as hell and even a dumbass like me can grasp them after a few pages (but fuck the economic stuff in Capital is a tough read).
We don't need to randomly change the words for economy, money, insurance, or stocks every 100 years to make liberal textbooks "updated". Lawyers literally still use latin terms, if we're updating can we not start there first?
If you're still using terms like "lift", "altitude", and "airspeed" in 2021 please update your aeronautics by literally 100+ years.
If you weigh yourself, don't talk about mass or kilogramms! Also please refrain from using verbs or flexions, please also consider to withhold your phonems and if you are at it breathing is kind of outdated (and not cool anymore).
I can't tell if op is doing a bit but you are not smart if you actually think those terms are outdated. :cia:
Please instead use “entrepreneurial effects,” “self-boss,” and “PoM (people of means)”
