I've seen an anti-consumerist borderline anprim argument that amounts to "people feeling the need for cosmetic surgery are simply being manipulated for profit".
And I'm not strictly against it, any more than I'm against the theory that - say - chest implants or lapband surgery is a product of consumer culture.
But Natalie Wynn attacks this elegantly enough in her video about beauty (also, opulence). Just trying to deny the desire for aesthetic is blinkered and confused.
At the same time, screaming "stay in your lane" at people who are talking about media-imduced consumerism gets nowhere. It's not good to assume everyone is a contrarian. Liz, of all people, is going to come at this in good faith.
Bespoke: supporting bottom surgery AND aesthetic alterations because aesthetics are culturally driven, and we would have to abolish culture to get rid of the concept of aesthetics or beauty all together, BUT rebelling and creating alternatives to the unfair aspects of beauty and aesthetics that punch down and harm those unable to conform to them.
There is an argument that you can't necessarily do both.
You either normalize the aesthetic and establish a kind-of taboo about not following the herd, or you upend the rigid regressive standard of masculinity/femininity and relegate these surgeries to luxury rather than necessity.
I think the conversation can go a bit off the rails in a country that doesn't treat fucking insulin or emergency room care as a necessity. In the end, it feels like debating the merits of raising the minimum wage versus abolishing money in a society that refuses to consider either.
But there is a point at which you have to address whether the problem is "I feel like a woman who doesn't have a vagina" or "I won't be accepted as a woman until I have a vagina". And that's the distinction I think Liz was aiming for.
are you saying we should abolish the concept of… attraction or appearance preference?
I'm saying these are cultural constructs, just like gender, and normalizing an invasive surgical procedure is maybe not the best way to address the problem of appearance bias.
are you saying i’m transphobic because I think people should be allowed to like different appearances?
I'm saying there's more to addressing the problem than just manually adjusting everyone's genitals to a default uniform appearance.
I've seen an anti-consumerist borderline anprim argument that amounts to "people feeling the need for cosmetic surgery are simply being manipulated for profit".
And I'm not strictly against it, any more than I'm against the theory that - say - chest implants or lapband surgery is a product of consumer culture.
But Natalie Wynn attacks this elegantly enough in her video about beauty (also, opulence). Just trying to deny the desire for aesthetic is blinkered and confused.
At the same time, screaming "stay in your lane" at people who are talking about media-imduced consumerism gets nowhere. It's not good to assume everyone is a contrarian. Liz, of all people, is going to come at this in good faith.
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One day comrade, one day :sicko-wistful:
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:sicko-luna: all art shall be replaced with chapo.chat emojis, literature included
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YOU'RE a kind of art
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:bern-disgust:
There is an argument that you can't necessarily do both.
You either normalize the aesthetic and establish a kind-of taboo about not following the herd, or you upend the rigid regressive standard of masculinity/femininity and relegate these surgeries to luxury rather than necessity.
I think the conversation can go a bit off the rails in a country that doesn't treat fucking insulin or emergency room care as a necessity. In the end, it feels like debating the merits of raising the minimum wage versus abolishing money in a society that refuses to consider either.
But there is a point at which you have to address whether the problem is "I feel like a woman who doesn't have a vagina" or "I won't be accepted as a woman until I have a vagina". And that's the distinction I think Liz was aiming for.
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Isn't that the same thing?
I don't think you're exiting your lane by saying "Wow, we should really do something about that dysphoria we're instilling in people."
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I'm saying these are cultural constructs, just like gender, and normalizing an invasive surgical procedure is maybe not the best way to address the problem of appearance bias.
I'm saying there's more to addressing the problem than just manually adjusting everyone's genitals to a default uniform appearance.
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I mean bias for or against an individual based on their physical appearance.
Just altering people to fit the normalcy bias creates its own set of problems.