Christianity is interesting to me, and my relationship with it is a bit complicated.

  • Both of my parents were raised Catholic, but both left the church before they met and before I was born. So, both sides of my family have a history of practicing Catholicism in some form or another.
  • So, I wasn't raised in any real religion. I don't remember really knowing what religion was until around middle school -- I started to make the connection between the stuff we were learning in social studies class with the things they referenced on The Simpsons. (Yes, some of my earliest memories of Christian imagery were from The Simpsons. It's a bit ironic that The Simpsons was so heavily criticized by Republicans in the early 1990s, seeing as how The Simpsons made more explicit references to Christianity than most network shows do).
  • When I was 10-12, I went to a Bible camp -- not because my parents were religious, but because it was a local place where I could go to camp and do camp stuff. However, in addition to hiking and kayaking, we would also discuss mildly Christian things (nothing hateful or homophobic, just general "being a good person" stuff) and we'd get "points" for our cabin if we memorized Bible passages. I think I took it a lot more seriously than my parents, to the point where I secretly wondered whether I was going to hell because my family didn't go to church.
  • Later, I remember some dinner where my dad casually mentioned that he was an atheist somewhere in the conversation. (I think he was getting an extra helping of some food, and saying "Well, I may be an atheist, but it's still a sin to waste food!") I remember interpreting this to mean that atheists are not evil, awful people -- they're normal people like my dad, and there's nothing wrong with being an atheist. Still, I never really explicitly had a deep conversation about religion with my parents.
  • I also started to get more interested in science and philosophy around this time, and I started using forums on the internet in the mid-2000s, the peak of internet debate over the existence of God (the peak in quantity, at least, if not quality.) I didn't read Richard Dawkins books until the late 2000s, but I did quickly become familiar with the basic arguments for and against the existence of God, and I became solidly an atheist. I live in a pretty liberal part of the world, so I suspect that on some level I associated "atheism" with the correct, liberal views I was supposed to have, i.e. the people on my side believe in science, education, peace, women's rights, gay rights, that George W. Bush was an idiot, that Jon Stewart and The Colbert Report were how smart people got their news, etc.
  • So, I did go through a bit of an "edgy atheist" phase. Reading The Fountainhead in high school probably didn't help. But I did try to genuinely keep an open mind to what other people had to say, and some of my best friends in high school were a Catholic and a Jehova's Witness. Partly because we were all such nerds, but I think also because, even if they didn't agree with me about whether or not God exists, they agreed with me that the question itself was worth discussing -- which arguably ties in with us being nerds.
  • With the goal of being "open-minded", I also forced myself to read C.S. Lewis's "Mere Christianity". I ended up feeling like I understood Christianity better than I did before, and read some of his other apologetics books as well. I still kind of like C.S. Lewis, as long as I filter out some of the obviously reactionary, sexist and racist stuff. When he hinted towards describing God and having a relationship with God, it felt like he was referring to something deep and real, even if it was something I didn't believe in or have access to.
  • My college and university years coincided with the transition from "all the cool people are atheists" to "all the cool people support social justice". My degree was in a very STEM-y field, so I didn't encounter much in the way of social justice in the courses I took, but in the clubs I joined, I did meet people who described themselves as Christians and who changed my perceptions of what Christians were like. The Christians I met were staunchly feminist, in favour of LGBTQ+ rights, and even pro-choice. (To the point where I wondered "But then, in what sense are you even a Christian, since those beliefs directly contradict a lot of stuff in the Bible?") By the time I graduated, I was still an atheist, but atheism wasn't my top priority the way it used to be, and having a friend who was Christian was less likely to mean "My friend is an ignorant bigot" and more likely to mean "My friend knows some cool trivia about 11th-century saints."

Since then, I've learned a bit more about history and about religion, and had a lot more experience with people. The national conversation has also changed, to the point where I don't feel as much of an animosity towards religion and religious people, because the most urgent conversations don't seem to fall along religious lines the way they used to. For example, it doesn't make much sense to say definitively whether the Bible is pro- or anti-capitalism, because capitalism didn't exist when the Bible was written. And when it comes to trans rights, BLM and other matters of social justice, the people I meet who are more likely to have bad opinions tend to be edgy atheists rather than bigoted Christians.

I've also learned a bit about the difference between "logos" and "mythos", and the degree to which we have to understand the world through narratives, and how that seems to be a big part of the value people get out of religion. And if the narratives that make up Christianity have survived this long, it seems likely that they probably contain something important about human nature -- I would really like to understand the Bible better than I do now, maybe even read the damn thing, even just for the purpose of understanding "Western" culture better than I do now. Heck, since both sides of my family were Catholic, it might even help me in understanding my family better. I also believe people's experiences when they say they have a relationship with God -- that is to say, I believe that they are, at the very least, describing a real subjective experience they are having. I've also seen Christians act out of an authentic, deep, powerful love for humanity, in a way that has informed my views on what it means to love humanity -- not just "hey everyone i <3 u #wholesome #positivity" but a profound love that provides clarity and motivates action.

(Okay, to be honest, the main examples I think of are Martin Luther King Jr. and Mr. Rogers, as well as a few friends and relatives who are Christians -- but I think that's not a bad place to start. Oh, and Jesus. He seems like a pretty important example too.)

And I wish I were able to be that kind of person. But it's difficult to try to be a better person on my own, and there's not really a secular community of people that pushes for people to live their lives in more meaningfully -- at least, no secular community I can think of that doesn't creep me out, e.g. self-help cults. And I wouldn't feel right joining a religious community, because any religion is going to include some beliefs I'm just not convinced of. Not that every Christian, for example, has to be a Biblical literalist, but I'm still not convinced that the universe was created by God, that God has a relationship with each of us, that Jesus died for our sins, or any of the other important supernatural beliefs that seem pretty central to Christianity. I've even tried going through the motions of prayer, but it feels pointless when I don't actually believe it's causing anything to happen.

"WhatAnOddUsername, why can't you just pick and choose the parts of Christianity you like and apply that to your life?" I think this ignores the community aspect of religion, and I also wonder if it does a bit of a disservice to the philosophical underpinnings of religious beliefs. A belief system isn't just an outfit you can accessorize however you want. A belief system is, well, a system, with parts that interact with each other and are often based in common principles. This seems particularly true with a belief system that's had thousands of years to evolve.

"WhatAnOddUsername, it sounds like you're having a personal existential crisis and that, in this emotional state, you're overly idealizing Christianity, like you think the grass is greener on the other side and that this 'one weird trick' will change your life. That is a really dangerous path to go down." You're right, and I'm glad you said that before I did anything I would regret. Having said all that, it does seem like, if I'm curious about Christianity, I think it wouldn't do much harm to learn more about Christianity -- historically, philosophically, socially, etc.

And on that note, I could start by asking a few questions to the people of this comm:

  • When you think about the purpose to what you do and why you exist, how does Christianity factor into it?
  • Have you had any experiences of tension between your religious beliefs and what you know to be true about the world? Did you reconcile them? How?

TL;DR: I finally understand what people mean when they say that people turn to religion for "answers". I find Christianity particularly interesting as a source of wisdom, but the problem is that I'm an atheist and I'm not sure what to do about that, other than to keep learning and ask you a few questions.

It's late at night where I am and I'm a bit tired, so I'll be back in the morning, when I'll be well-rested enough to be embarrassed about everything I've written here. Thank you for your time if you took the time to read my post.

  • REallyN [she/her,they/them]
    ·
    3 years ago

    I was raised Catholic as well, was baptized, went through first communion, catechism and confirmation.
    When I was a teenager I considered becoming a missionary...although I was also thinking about becoming a lot of other things.
    I also remember arguing with my Atheist friend in school about God and evolution and stuff.

    Around that time I also started questioning my sexuality and stuff and like....go on websites akin to reddit and 4chan and stuff.
    One of the places I would go to was a religion forum that had alot of debates between Atheists and Christians.
    I was kind of introduced to "skeptic youtube" or whatever you want to call it from there and gradually became an Atheist.

    I guess I kind of had an "edgy atheist" phase too....although I don't think I was ever that bad.
    I was still kind of interested in religions though....kind of like you said about narratives or like...understanding culture and history and stuff.
    So I kind of started dipping my toes in quasi-spiritual/religious groups.
    I am cringing typing this out, but for a bit I went on a forum for the Jedi religion, the Jedi in Star Wars were kind of fictional role models for me growing up and it had this like...secular appreciation of religion I was looking for at the time. 😬

    After awhile though I wanted something....idk...less hokey, more grounded....if that makes sense. There were a lot of Unitarian-Universalist churches in my area, they had their roots in old Christian denominations, but had kind of evolved into a sort of really open and loose syncretic spiritual thing.
    Tbh, something like that might be what you are looking for, they are pretty involved in activism and stuff and really aren't explicitly "Christian" at this point.
    They are pretty white, well-off, and liberal though.
    And something about the like..."feel good, anything goes, liberal spiritualism" kind of dragged on me after awhile.

    I am rambling I guess...and should probably answer your questions....but tbh....I'm not really sure what I believe currently. I still went on subreddits like RadicalChristianity and had a Study Bible I would try and read...and sometimes it would feel like something would click...or like...I dunno...there was a God and I wanted a relationship with them. So like half a year ago I decided to just try being a Christian again.

    I am ashamed to admit I don't think I am doing a good job at it. I feel like I have fallen short....and like...I know everyone has and does, but I dunno...I've just been really depressed and in the same way I push away and isolate myself from my family I feel like I am doing the same with God.

    To answer your questions though

    • When you think about the purpose to what you do and why you exist, how does Christianity factor into it?
    • Have you had any experiences of tension between your religious beliefs and what you know to be true about the world? Did you reconcile them? How?

    I guess the theological answer would be that people exist to have a relationship with God.
    I guess that could be just through experiencing their creation, in your relationship with your loved ones and stuff, although I suppose developing a personal relationship with God would also be more fulfilling.
    It's clear God has some kind of purpose for us as Christians...but idk what that is or what role it ultimately takes in the grand scheme of things besides following his commandments.
    Sometimes I think about the 2,000 odd years of history...and like...all the setbacks and crusades and inquisitions...feudalism, colonialism...and yet like...the gospels are still there for people to read and follow.
    Despite obfuscation or....misrepresentation by the powers that be there are still powerful verses they didn't just erase or cast aside.
    I don't know if they could erase the heart of the gospels.
    For me atleast...when I think of that...despite all the ill...I feel as if there is some kind of plan.
    idk if that makes sense.

    As for the other question,
    I'm not really sure...sometimes I think evolution is kind of fucked up...but I haven't really looked into like...discussions about it and God.

    Sorry for rambling again.

  • Teekeeus [comrade/them]
    ·
    3 years ago

    I'm still unsure about the purpose of my existence, but take comfort in my faith. I believe God has created me in His image, as He has created everybody, and there is a reason for being which I will eventually realize.

    As for conflicts or tensions, I don't really see Christianity conflicting with "worldly truths". Science and faith are not in conflict. Conflict thesis is outdated, and there have been and are many Christian scientists. Asa Gray, a biologist friend and supporter of Darwin, remained a staunch Christian and wrote a book about the comparability of science and faith. Leibniz and Newton were both Christians (though Newton had extremist and occultist beliefs). Georges Lemaitre, who discovered the Big Bang, was a Catholic Priest. And so on and so forth.

    And though I believe in miracles (including the resurrection) and important signs and wonders, I know that parts of scripture are literal and parts are figurative or allegorical. It's not new, it's not cherry picking, it's a proper way of interpretation that dates back to ancient times.

    As for social justice, scripture is intensely pro-social justice (as the current pope has repeatedly mention, including in papal encyclicals) and very egalitarian. A good resource for this is Fratelli Tutti, the latest encyclical. There is no condemnation of LGBT rights or peoples in the new testament (if you actually look at the context; there are laws in the old testament but they do not apply to Christians as much as the "no eating shrimp" laws apply). In fact scriptures are more affirming that people might think.

    And for economic justice, the Bible is extremely clear :jesus-cleanse:.

    Sure, the institutional church has committed many crimes, as have Christians. But there have also been numerous Christian leftists and radicals throughout the years. Scripture itself is radical. Liberation theology, Christian socialism, PoC churches (important communities for nonwhites, played key roles in the fight for civil rights and social justice), etc. There are also many churches who provide important social services to poor people in their communities (taking Scriptures seriously). Many nonwhites outsides the west are also Christians, and the faith is growing outside the west (I'm a nonwhite, non-western Christian).

    So in the end I feel that faith doesn't really conflict with science or leftist politics or worldviews.

  • discontinuuity [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    I grew up in a fairly conservative, mostly evangelical christian community, and so for a long time religion and politics were tied together. I was never on board with taking the Bible 100% literally, and a few years ago I decided that I was OK with not having an answer to every theological question. So I don't always believe in God (or at least the same version of God that I used to, but then again God is unknowable), but I still call myself a Christian since I believe in a lot of the things that Jesus said and did. Sort of like how I call myself a Marxist but I'm not 100% certain on everything Marx wrote. And since Jesus talked at length about God and the Old Testament, I should at least study and learn about them (I'm probably not going to bother reading Hegel though). Also, neither Christianity nor Marxism has a monopoly on truth, but both can be valuable ways to view and understand the world.

    One Christian concept that helps me find purpose is the idea of being "the hands and feet of Christ." The idea is that God could change the world supernaturally, but wants us to be active co-workers in bringing about his Kingdom on Earth. This isn't a theocracy like some of Jesus' disciples thought it would be, but a more subtle insurgent philosophy of living as if God has already brought justice to the Earth. So we're not waiting around for the Rapture (or the Revolution), we should try to make the world a better place right here and now.

    I've been working on parsing which parts of the Bible are parables, which are myths based in fact, and which are more accurate historical records, but there's always going to be some ambiguity (especially with the Old Testament, since translating ancient Hebrew is never precise). So I've reconciled the Bible with my modern understanding of the world by knowing that it was written by fallible humans thousands of years ago who had their own perspectives and probably got a lot of things wrong (but a lot of things right). This is an ongoing process and I'm by no means an expert.