Happy to say ive heard lots of great things from comrades who were there who include several NPC members.

https://twitter.com/NicolasMaduro/status/1411121788701052933

https://twitter.com/Gaius_Gracchus_/status/1411129317208244224

https://twitter.com/nicolasmaduro/status/1411150426049810434

:maduro-coffee:

  • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
    ·
    3 years ago

    No one is standing by their “DSA is social imperialist, how could they go to meet Maduro!?!” stance here if they had it

    This is from three days ago. Plenty of people are still beating the "social imperialist" drum.

    There's plenty of room for criticism of the DSA, but that criticism shouldn't be selective or done in bad faith.

      • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
        ·
        3 years ago

        Good faith criticism doesn't zero in on the bad and frame it in the worst possible light. It places a bad statement/act in context of whatever else the person says/does on the topic, and it considers that some bad things may be due to ignorance or mistake instead of the person being shitty.

        Take a look at some of AOC's other comments on imperialism, colonialism, and foreign policy. In that context, harping on her "deferred to caucus leadership" comment is blatantly misleading. It's the type of slant-by-omission you'd expect to see from someone running a smear campaign, not someone making a good-faith criticism. Clearly her views are more complicated than a blanket support of imperialism, and criticism should reflect that.

        • Vncredleader
          ·
          3 years ago

          Yeah but that was specifically on her talking about Tibet. I get that she is generally better than that, but not every critique needs to be couched in caveats

          • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
            ·
            3 years ago

            If it had been limited to her comments on Tibet, I would agree with you. But it brought up Venezuela, too.

            If someone brings up a vague statement on Venezuela, frames it as damning, and omits a half-dozen clearer, much better statements on the topic, that's bad-faith criticism.

            • Vncredleader
              ·
              3 years ago

              Sure, amidst good faith and warranted critiques. If something about Venezuela slips through into that, then I think the larger problem is with how statements like the Tibet one feed conscious and unconscious assumptions about the org. It confirms a bad faith read on Venezuela, because that negativity was vindicated with Tibet. I dont have an answer for that, nor would I say it is good; but it certainly is a problem and I get why it happens

        • black_mold_futures [none/use name]
          ·
          3 years ago

          frame it in the worst possible light.

          in context of whatever else the person says/does on the topic

          You're never going to get labor aristocrat Karens to do historical materialism, that would require reckoning with their material reality and not their idealist delusions.

          Clearly her views are more complicated than a blanket support of imperialism,

          she glows in the dark, but the light is very complicated patterns!

    • Vncredleader
      ·
      3 years ago

      That was some blatant bait, the Tibet thing was a while back no reason someone would repost it in earnest right now. But also AOC is not DSA. I wouldn't criticize people for praising this meeting and also condemning AOC for what she said. I would argue it would be bad faith to conflate criticism based on ignorance or essentializing the entire org with criticizing a specific statement/politician. Bafflement over DSA meeting with Maduro and disliking what AOC said are not mutually inclusive

      • MarxMadness [comrade/them]
        ·
        3 years ago

        AOC is easily the most high-profile member of the DSA. I get that she doesn't speak for the organization, but it's not hard to see the parallels between how she's viewed on the left and how the DSA is viewed.

        • Vncredleader
          ·
          edit-2
          3 years ago

          100%, which is why it is fair to criticize comments like hers. If her views parallel those of DSA even just in public opinion, then those views that are bad are all the more important to oppose. Even then I don't think too many people would suggest in earnest that DSA broadly agrees with her on Tibet, but maybe that's putting too much faith in folks

    • black_mold_futures [none/use name]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Plenty of people are still beating the “social imperialist” drum.

      User named after Marx is offended that people point out CIA imperialism manufacturing consent for genocide. Sounds about white!

      There’s plenty of room for criticism of the DSA, but that criticism shouldn’t be selective or done in bad faith.

      radlib justifications https://www.pastemagazine.com/politics/liberals/lectureporn-the-vulgar-art-of-liberal-narcissism/