You've run into a person, and this is very prevalent, who confuses something they do with who they are. It is a sign of a not wholly developed psyche. They internalize something they are better at than most people and integrate it into their personality, and it becomes part of their ego.
Either learn to let them stay confused in their ignorance, or say fuck it and burn a lot of bridges as you go through life. I've tried both approaches, and find the live-and-let-live approach better for me.
Heavy use of psychedelics decreases this phenomenon.
the fact you did ska at all makes your folk punk much more credible :very-smart:
Fuck dude I miss going to shows
:sicko-wistful:
that's all amazing though 10/10 credentials
It’s actually better to have other interests, this leads to more avenues of expression to work from
It sort of fertilizes the mind tho, and if you obsess with perfect execution, you’ll discover not a lot of people care, but if you focus on bombastic expression, they’ll remember you
I’ve worked in the music industry full time for 10+ years, worked with countless musicians and I’ve found “being a musician” to be pretty useless in terms of whether I get a long with someone lol
I think fundamentally interest in music is just too broad a category to meaningfully be useful. Everyone likes music and tons of people from all walks like it enough to get into playing it.
We can talk about some music stuff but outside of that it can get stale, and tbh in all my years I’ve never met someone who I was aligned with politically. I’ve gotten close but most people are reactionary chuds and libs and so are most musicians
The rant was very much anecdotal, I've also got a lot less experience than you obviously.
I do enjoy the conversation I sparked though.
For sure mine is as well. I may have had a bit better luck but I’ve met tons of dumbasses who happened to be musicians lol.
Hope you find some like minded musicians soon. Maybe there will be some at a local org or something?
Since covid risks are dying down and live music is coming back, I'm gonna try to attend a monthly manouche night that's local, maybe get the nerve to join for some songs.
all of this is systemic to the 'music theory' intellectuals because it really is 'the harmonic style of 18th century European musicians' but they just don't want to deal with critical takes on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr3quGh7pJA
Lol I knew the exact video that you linked before I clicked on it.
I really think music theory needs to take the route of linguistics and try to analyze patterns in enjoyable music and try to figure out what makes something "music". You are right that music theory right now is just a bunch of lanky white guys jacking each other off but it could be a lot more.
Im not doubting your experience but I am fairly surprised at the amount of musicians who are still genre racist you run into? Is it really so prevalent?
I have a hard time fitting in with other musicians too. I actually have a similar story as you, guitar since I was ten, high school band. Now Im an adult, and its hard to join bands with other adults, theyre grown but a lot of the time they are so immature its painful.
Its a relatively small community compared to other genres. You see plenty of people who are like "maybe we shouldn't use gypsy anymore" but also enough people who don't care that the genre is still called "Gypsy Jazz" more than the other two names.
I honestly hate referring to it irl because no one knows what I'm saying when I say Manouche.
That being said I've spoken to zero Manouche players irl. I've only been to one live jazz show and it was literally the week before Covid lockdowns hit and other folks at the table next to us were joking it would be the last one for a while and they were quite right.
Im not doubting your experience but I am fairly surprised at the amount of musicians who are still genre racist you run into? Is it really so prevalent?
I've learned to be really careful generalising my own experiences. Like I've lived most of my life around nerds/hacker culture here locally, and always found it to be welcoming and fairly left in terms of politics. But after having seen so many examples of tech-bro CHUDs the past 10 years, I realised I was probably just in some weird kind of bubble.
So, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot of right-wing loonies among musicians that just happen to escape my radar because they're in different scenes.
Not a music person but most of my music friends would talk about how "band friendships are the most paper thing friendships you can have". It seemed like a pattern, it's hard for me to understand how this can happen, I can't really explain it. What I can add is that you're not the only one going through this, for whatever solace that can bring.
I have played in dozens of bands, possibly over 100. I have been in 2 bands where I’m still friends with anyone from them now that we’re done. Most musicians are extremely good at having a casual-seeming quasi-professional friendship and then just never talking to you again unless they see you in public. It’s kind of part of the gig of playing with a ton of groups all the time
Theory can be an important thing to know if you want to explore why certain things sound certain ways or a useful thing to help write a song. Like I've written stuff just by choosing a random key and time signature and seeing where it goes. Normal music in B flat minor with a 7/8 time signature.
But eventually music is just what sounds good. Do what you like and people who get obsessed with rules and theory are complete dorks who hate fun and love pain. "Oh yes this is a F#dAug7 chord" yeah ok man I'm just hitting notes
But eventually music is just what sounds good
This. Theory isn’t and shouldn’t be a prescriptivist set of rules. For everything we say sounds bad you can typically find some context where it can be interesting or pleasant somewhere else
. I meanif you bang a diminished fifth it sounds pretty nasty, (unless that’s what you’re going for, really accounting for taste opens up a whole other bag of subjective worms tbh) but it can sound great in a flat V minor 7th chord.
People that get prescriptivist on theory are just trying to make an interesting personality around having “superior” knowledge instead of just enjoying music. It’s tool to understand music more deeply, that’s it
Thats an interesting point about the Negro Spiritual genre.
One thing that makes it odd is generally the GJ players aren't typically Roma, and especially now few of the players have any real connection to the origins. Its as if a white upper managment guy got interested in performing Negro Spiritual and made it his thing and started festivals and events for it etc.
Some Roma people like the term, as well as another group, the Sinti. Others don't. Also in part is the derogitory nature in which Gypsy is used, often times the people at fault of crime and Roma travelers are not the same, but the "Gypsy" gets the blame anyway. Additionally there are two other period correct names for it, unlike the spiritual genre which was very specific.
Thanks for bringing this up, it's a very interesting counter example to explore.
Yeah I kinda get you. I love performing "negro spirituals" and other similar types of music so the names can get a little awkward for a white person like myself. The big thing as always is just listening to members of the subject group and doing what their consensus is.
From a fellow high school Ska band person, skank on comrade!
Music theory people are assholes because they're authoritarians. I was in marching band too and this is where my perspective comes from. The academic musicians are constantly waiting to call someone out for being out of key or to prove they know a more complex way to play something. Its a cycle of abuse thing. Yeah, good music and creative shit comes out of it but its no fun socially.
Jazz people really are snobby in my experience. I prefer musicians that can't read a note and have no idea what they are playing other than it sounds good. Perhaps you should go down a more punk route? Just because its punk doesn't mean it has to be simplistic.
EDIT: By authoritarian, I mean they are devoted/enslaved to the correctness of theory in practice, rather than the harmonious joy that comes from creating music.
Punk stuff is where I came from and its always important to me, but I've always wanted to learn to solo well in a swing jazz setting. I do enjoy some of the rigor in learning music theory and reading music and all that. I do enjoy some math rock, I love bands like tricot and learned Potage with decent success but the way my brain works, I need to understand all the aspects of what makes something work and just creating new paths is difficult for me without some kinda map. I can learn to cover songs all day but writing music hasn't made any sense to me until I started applying some theory.
Its also why I love manouche because its not very strict on the theory but you can still apply it to understand why X sounds and feels like it does. IE a lot of Django's playing is heavily based around arpeggios and chromatic variations, which is very easy to get started with but difficult to master building lines. I want to really get a feel for chord changes and playing with the changes. Having that goal is helpful for me.
But yeah, that's a good point on the authoritarian aspect of music theory snobs. Guitar always feels a bit outsidery compared to someone who only studies say jazz trumpet. Not many people who play the trumpet get anywhere by learning a couple notes and feeling it out the way a lot of guitarists, bassists, etc do it. Most folks who play a kind of brass or woodwind did so through school, like you in marching band. I skipped any and all school based music education so I was very much out of the loop in that regard. Classical guitar is similar but also funny because classical guitar is fairly young compared to a lot of the pieces played on it. One thing I do enjoy though is the variations of style with classical. Also the technical skills I've learned with strict classical practice have been incredibly valuable for random finger styles like folk, clawhammer banjo, finger style jazz chord progressions, etc. I can pick up most pieces and play decently without a pick which is neat.
My couple of friends who are more on the music theory side are really into it for the personal growth aspect and treat it like musical sudoku. Unfortunately it can be pretty isolating if when you [rightfully] can't stomach the jerks in the scene.
Story time, one of my bffs tried to get into a audition only college jazz program after high school. He was really good, had been taking lessons for years, was in high school jazz band, etc. etc. He didn't make the cut because it was so competitive and it honestly broke the guy. So unfair to kill the dream of a talented young person like that. I think it was his lack of connections tbh
Felling that rant OP. Reconnected with teenage friends recently and was pretty disgusted by some of the comments. We never actually talked politics back in the day. Weird hearing comments that were totally contradictory to the way we carried ourselves.
I too was in a high school ska band. Played saxophone. Now I play guitar for bands (started when I was 13), and that's my main thing.
Being older now, my main struggle with my music is that the local scene is so intertwined, that because I'm not "in" with the right people, we tend to get really shitty shows. On top of that, our band is just a 2 piece since yeah, it's hard to find someone who vibes. I had close friends with me for a lot of my current band's run, but then they moved away and I struggled really hard to get it going again.
That said, our genre is, on a whole, more progressive than what the genres you're describing sound like. We've been fortunate to never run into anyone quite like that.
If you're really looking to get out there, unfortunately, there's not much other advice I have other than get out and try. If you run into some assholes, oh well. Don't play there again. It's tough and it sucks. It might be worth hopping on social media of your choice and looking around local music groups to find someone. That way, you can talk to them and filter out anyone you dont like before meeting.
I haven't met any serious django heads that don't suck. Solid quarter notes on those guys though. I'll give them that.
What I do is try to be real nice. Be helpful. Care about people. Value their time. Remember things about them and ask questions about the ongoing stories in their lives. Because the people are the most important thing in music.
Also as you get older the shitty people kinda drop off or sometimes mellow out. But the level of musicianship keeps rising. You don't want to be an asshole or incompetent. Sometimes the phone just doesn't ring.
