Last Jedi had Finn and Poe decide to be aware of the space opera and get others killed.
Like if you run around going “magical thinking will save me” you will lose.
The Jedi’s problem wasn’t the training or being detached, it was being formally part of the system.
The Jedi should be roaming the universe as heroic agents of intuition. But becoming a branch of the government, and then becoming an actual army. The Jedi should not have been an army against separatist ideology as they should have been seeking out the injustice at the heart of the problem.
Last Jedi is the only good Star Wars movie since 1983.
It’s the only movie that really considers maybe the heroes are fucked by apathy and allowing the first order to Happen in the first place.
Miracle moments happen for both sides, and Star Wars logic is also defied.
It’s very much about asking God to let you win the lottery requires you to at least buy a ticket.
Oh my God that's alot of text. With that said, wasn't the resistance literally a group that only survived the death of the new republic because they weren't complacent and decided to keep fighting even after the lib mon mothma decided the struggle was over and she could settle into her roles as a former politician in space california? The Last Jedi punishes their guerrilla moxy by annihilating them by the end of the movie. (no, this wasn't metacommentary comparing the rebels to Mao or the 26th of July movement) Granted TROS ruins this by having Lando pull an armada out of his ass but still. I don't necessarily disagree about the jedi being a part of the system, i just think that the Sith maneuvered them into relying on it and exploiting how they had been the ones secretly letting it go on for so long. I'm pretty sure the Sith kept the republic on life support just long enough to have the Jedi be hopelessly bound up in it. Leia also kind of punished Poe for no reason, that fleet was fucked anyway. (granted she had no way to know that they were going to be tracked, it's just that tlj kept making valid points then immediately undermining them for no reason, which made the thing they were criticizing right in retrospect. If you have slow ass bombers, you need to use that shit before it gets wiped out, even if the crew dies
Leia reprimanding Poe was not because he got the bomber crews killed, it was because he violated a direct order. They are a military, and that guerrilla moxy cannot win a war on its own. If everyone tries their own sacrifices and is predisposed to break ranks whenever they feel like it, they will fail. That's the whole point, it was the point with Poe, it was the point with Finn's "sacrifice" which would not have actually worked but was just self-indulgent. Poe prevented them from leaving sooner just to take down a vessel which the FO could very well replace more easily than the Resistance can any of its equipment.
I also wouldn't say TLJ eliminates them because their moxy or whatever, they do survive, like Luke said "The rebellion is reborn". But yeah the fucking armada out of nowhere pisses me off so much. Its like all the loss or set up for a weakened Resistance is thrown aside. The idea is not bad, but it feels utterly hollow
I do fully agree with you about the jedi and the system. The Jedi should be involved, they should have a will to the presence in the galaxy. Honestly that was the truth to Dooku's dissent within the order, he felt that if Jedi where to die on the Republic's orders, they should have a voice in the senate at the very least. The Jedi should be involved in galactic affairs, and if the Republic is the main body in the galaxy then they should be involved with it. But either fully integrated as a branch of it, or have a very explicit stance and role in it all. The waffling was the biggest problem IMO.
Is it weird that in the theater I instantly knew how they worked and was like "oh cool they have gravity in the vessel and once partway there they magnetize or something"? Like I spend too much time justifying and thinking about the logistics of star wars warfare, but I felt it was fine. Not like we dont see TIE Bombers drop bombs in ESB
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phGlo_TNDp0
No they were fast 1950s bombers. The starfortresses are based on flying fortresses, TIE-bombers are Douglas Devastators or the like. Not like TIE's weren't literally made from scrapped Stukas for the original trilogy.
Yeah cause they are meant to carpet bomb. That was why they worked for me, that and I liked the design. You have the Resistance's only bombers as old old surplus from the end of the civil war, meant for planetary bombings mostly, and largely converted to mining vessels (which in lore is actually how the Tico sisters learned to fly them), clearly not in good shape and even moreso nothing akin to Y-wings which can maneuver. I loved it, the point was that this is what the Resistance is relying on, they cannot even afford to spare these hunks of junk as they are their only bombers. Yeah they are shit for the job, but they are all they have on them.
It's one of those lines between a stupid idea on a story level, and a stupid thing that on a story level tells us something fundamental. I view it like complaining that the speeders at the end are dumb cause they literally break from Poe's foot pushing down. It is there to show the desperation of the situation.
Last Jedi had Finn and Poe decide to be aware of the space opera and get others killed.
Like if you run around going “magical thinking will save me” you will lose.
The Jedi’s problem wasn’t the training or being detached, it was being formally part of the system.
The Jedi should be roaming the universe as heroic agents of intuition. But becoming a branch of the government, and then becoming an actual army. The Jedi should not have been an army against separatist ideology as they should have been seeking out the injustice at the heart of the problem.
Last Jedi is the only good Star Wars movie since 1983.
It’s the only movie that really considers maybe the heroes are fucked by apathy and allowing the first order to Happen in the first place.
Miracle moments happen for both sides, and Star Wars logic is also defied.
It’s very much about asking God to let you win the lottery requires you to at least buy a ticket.
Oh my God that's alot of text. With that said, wasn't the resistance literally a group that only survived the death of the new republic because they weren't complacent and decided to keep fighting even after the lib mon mothma decided the struggle was over and she could settle into her roles as a former politician in space california? The Last Jedi punishes their guerrilla moxy by annihilating them by the end of the movie. (no, this wasn't metacommentary comparing the rebels to Mao or the 26th of July movement) Granted TROS ruins this by having Lando pull an armada out of his ass but still. I don't necessarily disagree about the jedi being a part of the system, i just think that the Sith maneuvered them into relying on it and exploiting how they had been the ones secretly letting it go on for so long. I'm pretty sure the Sith kept the republic on life support just long enough to have the Jedi be hopelessly bound up in it. Leia also kind of punished Poe for no reason, that fleet was fucked anyway. (granted she had no way to know that they were going to be tracked, it's just that tlj kept making valid points then immediately undermining them for no reason, which made the thing they were criticizing right in retrospect. If you have slow ass bombers, you need to use that shit before it gets wiped out, even if the crew dies
Leia reprimanding Poe was not because he got the bomber crews killed, it was because he violated a direct order. They are a military, and that guerrilla moxy cannot win a war on its own. If everyone tries their own sacrifices and is predisposed to break ranks whenever they feel like it, they will fail. That's the whole point, it was the point with Poe, it was the point with Finn's "sacrifice" which would not have actually worked but was just self-indulgent. Poe prevented them from leaving sooner just to take down a vessel which the FO could very well replace more easily than the Resistance can any of its equipment.
I also wouldn't say TLJ eliminates them because their moxy or whatever, they do survive, like Luke said "The rebellion is reborn". But yeah the fucking armada out of nowhere pisses me off so much. Its like all the loss or set up for a weakened Resistance is thrown aside. The idea is not bad, but it feels utterly hollow
I do fully agree with you about the jedi and the system. The Jedi should be involved, they should have a will to the presence in the galaxy. Honestly that was the truth to Dooku's dissent within the order, he felt that if Jedi where to die on the Republic's orders, they should have a voice in the senate at the very least. The Jedi should be involved in galactic affairs, and if the Republic is the main body in the galaxy then they should be involved with it. But either fully integrated as a branch of it, or have a very explicit stance and role in it all. The waffling was the biggest problem IMO.
Dear god i forgot bombers in space!! Holy shit!!
Is it weird that in the theater I instantly knew how they worked and was like "oh cool they have gravity in the vessel and once partway there they magnetize or something"? Like I spend too much time justifying and thinking about the logistics of star wars warfare, but I felt it was fine. Not like we dont see TIE Bombers drop bombs in ESB https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phGlo_TNDp0
Tie bombers werent slow 1950s bombers.
No they were fast 1950s bombers. The starfortresses are based on flying fortresses, TIE-bombers are Douglas Devastators or the like. Not like TIE's weren't literally made from scrapped Stukas for the original trilogy.
In that scene they were slow as fuck. Tie bombers were cruising and dropping bombs. But i believe your confidence.
Yeah cause they are meant to carpet bomb. That was why they worked for me, that and I liked the design. You have the Resistance's only bombers as old old surplus from the end of the civil war, meant for planetary bombings mostly, and largely converted to mining vessels (which in lore is actually how the Tico sisters learned to fly them), clearly not in good shape and even moreso nothing akin to Y-wings which can maneuver. I loved it, the point was that this is what the Resistance is relying on, they cannot even afford to spare these hunks of junk as they are their only bombers. Yeah they are shit for the job, but they are all they have on them.
It's one of those lines between a stupid idea on a story level, and a stupid thing that on a story level tells us something fundamental. I view it like complaining that the speeders at the end are dumb cause they literally break from Poe's foot pushing down. It is there to show the desperation of the situation.
Not complaining. You're awesome!
:deng-smile: