it's a good question. I don't know if I have a good answer. Let me put it this way, I would view shutting down Catholics as religious persecution. I would not view shutting down scientology as religious persecution. One has hundreds of years of cultural history and millions of people who lived and died under these traditions. That makes it significantly different from something like scientology. You should question me, because I'm not an expert on these things. I'm not trying to go full lib here and say that the awful things that Catholic church does is legitimate, but simply that cults are much harder to snuff out once they become cultures. The "legitimacy" itself is socially constructed and not necessarily a real thing, but you can see a significant difference between how cults are viewed and how well established old world religions are viewed.
A socialist party can lose a lot of public favor when they persecute well established world religions. I remember watching Hakim's (who is Muslim) video on Soviet mistakes we should learn from, and persecuting old world religions was one of them. But I also look at newish religions like Mormonism and Scientology and don't want to see them grow to the status of the old religions, as it would only complicate matters further.
Which will wither away first, religion or the state? I'm actually not trying to do a sectarianism, I'm not even sure I'm an anarchist any more, merely making the point that if we ever do get to embark on a socialist project with the goal of communism, religion should be down near the bottom of the list of things we should worry about. I think people should be free to practice whatever religion they wish, regardless of how silly it seems to me. I think our energy should be focused squarely on repressing bourgeois interests directly. I know religion can be an entry to counter-revolutionary sentiment, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. I say you can worship how you want, but the minute you act against the worker's state go directly to :gulag:
know religion can be an entry to counter-revolutionary sentiment, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be. I say you can worship how you want, but the minute you act against the worker’s state go directly to gulag
i agree with you entirely and I wish i had better answers on what the difference between a "legitimate" religion and a bourgeois cult/mafia is (the "church" of scientology for instance has a private navy called Sea Org). As you suggested these organizations can be used as powerful tools for organizing the bourgeoisie as a class, and their petit bourgeois reactionary minions. I don't know what best way to combat that is.
Well they definitely can't keep their Navy. Hopefully we get the chance to find out, but I imagine the ones that are going to be a problem will tell on themselves fairly early on.
I'd also point out there are "Free Church" Scientologists that have broken from the mainline church because of it's excesses. I think they're deeply odd, but I'd say let them be.
it's a good question. I don't know if I have a good answer. Let me put it this way, I would view shutting down Catholics as religious persecution. I would not view shutting down scientology as religious persecution. One has hundreds of years of cultural history and millions of people who lived and died under these traditions. That makes it significantly different from something like scientology. You should question me, because I'm not an expert on these things. I'm not trying to go full lib here and say that the awful things that Catholic church does is legitimate, but simply that cults are much harder to snuff out once they become cultures. The "legitimacy" itself is socially constructed and not necessarily a real thing, but you can see a significant difference between how cults are viewed and how well established old world religions are viewed.
A socialist party can lose a lot of public favor when they persecute well established world religions. I remember watching Hakim's (who is Muslim) video on Soviet mistakes we should learn from, and persecuting old world religions was one of them. But I also look at newish religions like Mormonism and Scientology and don't want to see them grow to the status of the old religions, as it would only complicate matters further.
Which will wither away first, religion or the state? I'm actually not trying to do a sectarianism, I'm not even sure I'm an anarchist any more, merely making the point that if we ever do get to embark on a socialist project with the goal of communism, religion should be down near the bottom of the list of things we should worry about. I think people should be free to practice whatever religion they wish, regardless of how silly it seems to me. I think our energy should be focused squarely on repressing bourgeois interests directly. I know religion can be an entry to counter-revolutionary sentiment, but it doesn't necessarily have to be. I say you can worship how you want, but the minute you act against the worker's state go directly to :gulag:
i agree with you entirely and I wish i had better answers on what the difference between a "legitimate" religion and a bourgeois cult/mafia is (the "church" of scientology for instance has a private navy called Sea Org). As you suggested these organizations can be used as powerful tools for organizing the bourgeoisie as a class, and their petit bourgeois reactionary minions. I don't know what best way to combat that is.
Well they definitely can't keep their Navy. Hopefully we get the chance to find out, but I imagine the ones that are going to be a problem will tell on themselves fairly early on.
I'd also point out there are "Free Church" Scientologists that have broken from the mainline church because of it's excesses. I think they're deeply odd, but I'd say let them be.