🚨Exclusive: OpenAI used outsourced Kenyan workers earning less than $2 per hour to make ChatGPT less toxic, my investigation found (Thread)https://t.co/302G0z7vy3— Billy Perrigo (@billyperrigo) January 18, 2023
If "ID-above-X-users" were made law, the biggest social sites would immediately require IDs, like Pornhub did in Louisiana recently. They might lobby against the law, but they're going to stay above ground because they are running a profitable business and they have shareholders and stuff. I think the majority of social media use is through companies like Facebook, Twitter, TikTok.
It's currently technically possible for anyone to make a CP website. They're rare because most countries will raid you if you do, going to great lengths to get you even if you're serving it over TOR. Same goes for drug markets. Everyone knows that if you build something like that, it's just a matter of time before you make one tiny opsec slip-up and go to jail. That's the level of coercion that has to be applied to get 99% compliance. And it can be done; it's being done right now with drug and CP websites. I like drug markets but they're super super niche. Most people don't even know they're real, TOR and crypto are technically intimidating, and they're constantly being shut down as LE plays whack-a-mole and operators exit scam. You can see how that does not translate well to making underground social media large enough to give mods PTSD. Posts on Dread get like 20 upvotes max.
And of course underground anonymous social media offers a degraded experience. Lots of normal people will be fine with aboveground sites that simply take their ID at signup, like Gmail asks for a phone number or NextDoor asks for your address. Anonymous sites will have a higher proportion of sickos posting PTSD content because that's the only place they can go, which drives away normal people, which makes the proportion of sickos higher, which drives away normal people, etc. It's what happened to "free speech" Voat, and why 4chan has 27 million monthly users compared to Instagram's 2 billion.
Sort of, CP sites are just as commonly black-holed by ISPs rather than actually shut down, so it's not that simple. And this is a level of demand thing. Tor isn't overly used, but if it were the only way to get some forms of media, it would be made much easier and much more popular.
And if the only workable solution is raiding and jailing anybody who runs a website without state-sanctioned ID verification, that seems a very heavy-handed approach with a million downsides, all for the sake of avoiding excess amounts of have to moderate :freeze-peach:.
ISPs black-hole because they don't want to get in trouble. Same thing. There's a bunch of layers where actors decide to comply with the law because it's easiest. Like AWS will probably kick you off if they find out you're hosting CP on their servers. Underlying this is the actual threat of state force: besides making advertisers happy, AWS doesn't want to get raided.
It's a heavy-handed solution, but that's kind of the nature of any policy change beyond market rate adjustments. You can tweak bond rates or whatever, but when you want to outlaw something you gotta have state force backing it up. To have, e.g. OSHA standards, you need to be willing to fine and even shut down dangerous workplaces. Most businesses will mostly comply because being punished is unprofitable. This is about worker safety. Jobs where you have to look at cartel executions 8 hours a day shouldn't exist. Rather than e.g. legislate it to two hours but leave an obvious profit incentive for companies to skirt the law, it would be better to remove the profit incentive. Make that an economically unproductive activity, because advertisers don't want to advertise next to "cleaned" but still illegal anon social media.
I agree that the jobs shouldn't exist. But this proposed solution throws the baby, the mother and the whole dang household out with the bathwater. 'State ID the whole internet' is the kind of massively bureaucratic and overly authoritarian approach that I suspect would invalidate a government in any fair society.
I'm starting to realise that fair communistic work organisation solves the problem anyways - nobody will actually be coerced into that kind of shitty work 8 hours a day. If the work needs doing, it can be organised much better, and if its not worth doing, then workers won't do it and the workplaces will find suitable tailored solutions.
If "ID-above-X-users" were made law, the biggest social sites would immediately require IDs, like Pornhub did in Louisiana recently. They might lobby against the law, but they're going to stay above ground because they are running a profitable business and they have shareholders and stuff. I think the majority of social media use is through companies like Facebook, Twitter, TikTok.
It's currently technically possible for anyone to make a CP website. They're rare because most countries will raid you if you do, going to great lengths to get you even if you're serving it over TOR. Same goes for drug markets. Everyone knows that if you build something like that, it's just a matter of time before you make one tiny opsec slip-up and go to jail. That's the level of coercion that has to be applied to get 99% compliance. And it can be done; it's being done right now with drug and CP websites. I like drug markets but they're super super niche. Most people don't even know they're real, TOR and crypto are technically intimidating, and they're constantly being shut down as LE plays whack-a-mole and operators exit scam. You can see how that does not translate well to making underground social media large enough to give mods PTSD. Posts on Dread get like 20 upvotes max.
And of course underground anonymous social media offers a degraded experience. Lots of normal people will be fine with aboveground sites that simply take their ID at signup, like Gmail asks for a phone number or NextDoor asks for your address. Anonymous sites will have a higher proportion of sickos posting PTSD content because that's the only place they can go, which drives away normal people, which makes the proportion of sickos higher, which drives away normal people, etc. It's what happened to "free speech" Voat, and why 4chan has 27 million monthly users compared to Instagram's 2 billion.
Sort of, CP sites are just as commonly black-holed by ISPs rather than actually shut down, so it's not that simple. And this is a level of demand thing. Tor isn't overly used, but if it were the only way to get some forms of media, it would be made much easier and much more popular.
And if the only workable solution is raiding and jailing anybody who runs a website without state-sanctioned ID verification, that seems a very heavy-handed approach with a million downsides, all for the sake of avoiding excess amounts of have to moderate :freeze-peach:.
ISPs black-hole because they don't want to get in trouble. Same thing. There's a bunch of layers where actors decide to comply with the law because it's easiest. Like AWS will probably kick you off if they find out you're hosting CP on their servers. Underlying this is the actual threat of state force: besides making advertisers happy, AWS doesn't want to get raided.
It's a heavy-handed solution, but that's kind of the nature of any policy change beyond market rate adjustments. You can tweak bond rates or whatever, but when you want to outlaw something you gotta have state force backing it up. To have, e.g. OSHA standards, you need to be willing to fine and even shut down dangerous workplaces. Most businesses will mostly comply because being punished is unprofitable. This is about worker safety. Jobs where you have to look at cartel executions 8 hours a day shouldn't exist. Rather than e.g. legislate it to two hours but leave an obvious profit incentive for companies to skirt the law, it would be better to remove the profit incentive. Make that an economically unproductive activity, because advertisers don't want to advertise next to "cleaned" but still illegal anon social media.
I agree that the jobs shouldn't exist. But this proposed solution throws the baby, the mother and the whole dang household out with the bathwater. 'State ID the whole internet' is the kind of massively bureaucratic and overly authoritarian approach that I suspect would invalidate a government in any fair society.
I'm starting to realise that fair communistic work organisation solves the problem anyways - nobody will actually be coerced into that kind of shitty work 8 hours a day. If the work needs doing, it can be organised much better, and if its not worth doing, then workers won't do it and the workplaces will find suitable tailored solutions.