The premise of the story is what do you do when you only have bad choices. It is grimdark. If we don't belive grimdark has artistic merrit that is fine. If we grant that it can however, the artistic statements made by this show are more interesting than those made many shows we would consider unremarkable.
The premise of the story is what do you do when you only have bad choices. It is grimdark.
Yeah, and it conveniently makes the "less bad" choice line up with genocide, thus why I call it genocide apologia. The fiction is conveniently set up for the writers' desires to be not only acceptable, but necessary for survival.
the artistic statements made by this show are more interesting
I disagree. There's plenty of other anime and manga out there that do the "otherfied monster simply must be exterminated" angle and I don't see the value of yet another. I don't even remember its name, but there's a sci-fi space exploration post-apocalypse thingy with glaringly black stereotype sexual violence monsters carrying off women and it's basically just Goblin Slayer with an older skin.
It isn't necessary for survival. The hero is the only one doing it. The rich are perfectly happy to let the occasional peasant village burn. If goblins are anyone they are white people raiding poor villages, doing sexual violence, and leaving without consequence. That is how we treat the indigenous in reservations to this day. That is the wild west. In which case killing the settlers would have been perfectly valid would it not?
"The otherfied dehumanized intelligent vermin must be exterminated and only this poor isolated mass murderer has the will to do it" isn't exactly selling me on it not being cryptofascist apologia.
That is how we treat the indigenous in reservations to this day.
Actually, historical precedent is to call the indigenous people "not actually people" and make vivid fantasies up about how they're coming for their wives therefore exterminating them is not genocide.
Yeah, the gimmick though is we actually did it. All the things we said we were afraid of them doing we did. We are not liberals. I am not hugely interest I what people say. I am interested in what people so. And we were an encroaching wave of paracites. Had there been a few more cracker slayers among the indigenous people history would likey have turned out better.
Clearly you've bought into the Thermian Argument and there's no talking you out of it.
I suppose I have nothing more to say and I'm done trying to convince you that dressed up plot contrivances to excuse genocide are still excuses for genocide.
So you are telling me the plot is wrong, goblins are fully sentient reasonable creatures? Fine, what is the solution then? I know youbliek to write, so what is the answer to the riddle here?
I'm telling you that the plot is a conveniently contrived fiction made by writers that wanted a justified genocide, period. Fiction allows the fiction writer to conjure up any excuse they want to make what they want to happen happen and maybe even make it seem necessary or the lesser of whatever evils.
Which is not engaging with the work at all. It is really mid at best, so simply ignoring it is fine I suppose.
That leaves us with my point that I feel like it covers themes found in regular anime in more interesting and nuanced ways than most regular anime. Which you are free to not care about.
Atlas Shrugged conjured up similar convenient fictional contrivances to push its own message, creating a conveniently crude series of plot rails to make the writer's desires necessary and desirable, no matter how horrible the supposedly justified actions are.
Your arguments could be used to defend Mein Kampf, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or any number of other chud/fascist writings, because in every one of those cases the writer already set the stage and you are demanding I humor the writer's fictionalized excuses for what they want me to believe and nod along to.
In GS the setting is grimdark but the plot is actually very wholesome. It is sus that killing animals is part of the setting and not the plot true. However, animals exist. You talk about fascist comparing people to vermin, which implies the existence of vermin. I do not feel you have justified ignoring the plots assertion that goblins are vermin. You don't have to, we don't have to have this conversation. If we are going to have to have the co versatile you do need to take the work on it's on merrits at least a little.
With ayn rand the setting is grimdark and the plot is terrible. The points the plot makes are disproveable in the plot itself just all a mess. If rand created magic worlds where you had to be nechian super men the plot would still fall apart because her solutions about what to do with that are terrible. If she created an airtight work of beautiful fascist fiction, as has be done from time to time, I would just not engage with it.
If you seriously believe the wacky genocide hijinx are wholesome because the writers conjured up excuses for them that you buy into, I really have nothing more to say to you about this.
You don’t have to, we don’t have to have this conversation.
I'd rather not go further down this cryptofascist genocide apologia rabbithole, no matter how "wholesome" its writers supposedly presented it.
Then we can agree that the show centers female agency in ways unusual for modern art and that is laudable? That really is the only point t I care about here.
I would also say that fantasy genocide is a common enough part of even mainstream liberal art that in this moment it isn't really remarkable, but we have some disagreement there.
I don't really care about the goblins, neither does the author, and neither do you. You care because you feel the goblins are secretly not goblins, but regular people. Which is a claim neither of us are really deeply invested in considering. However it is interesting to consider I think.
I don’t really care about the goblins, neither does the author, and neither do you. You care because you feel the goblins are secretly not goblins, but regular people. Which is a claim neither of us are really deeply invested in considering. However it is interesting to consider I think.
Just reading along, this seems accurate? Would it be easier if the goblins weren't so humanoid? What if they were mosquitoes?
That would just be aliens. Except anime hicks has anime ptsd and anime signorny weaver tries to help him to restore her faith in anime God. So a less good anime version of it. Which is still why better than most anime
The premise of the story is what do you do when you only have bad choices. It is grimdark. If we don't belive grimdark has artistic merrit that is fine. If we grant that it can however, the artistic statements made by this show are more interesting than those made many shows we would consider unremarkable.
Yeah, and it conveniently makes the "less bad" choice line up with genocide, thus why I call it genocide apologia. The fiction is conveniently set up for the writers' desires to be not only acceptable, but necessary for survival.
I disagree. There's plenty of other anime and manga out there that do the "otherfied monster simply must be exterminated" angle and I don't see the value of yet another. I don't even remember its name, but there's a sci-fi space exploration post-apocalypse thingy with glaringly black stereotype sexual violence monsters carrying off women and it's basically just Goblin Slayer with an older skin.
It isn't necessary for survival. The hero is the only one doing it. The rich are perfectly happy to let the occasional peasant village burn. If goblins are anyone they are white people raiding poor villages, doing sexual violence, and leaving without consequence. That is how we treat the indigenous in reservations to this day. That is the wild west. In which case killing the settlers would have been perfectly valid would it not?
"The otherfied dehumanized intelligent vermin must be exterminated and only this poor isolated mass murderer has the will to do it" isn't exactly selling me on it not being cryptofascist apologia.
Actually, historical precedent is to call the indigenous people "not actually people" and make vivid fantasies up about how they're coming for their wives therefore exterminating them is not genocide.
Yeah, the gimmick though is we actually did it. All the things we said we were afraid of them doing we did. We are not liberals. I am not hugely interest I what people say. I am interested in what people so. And we were an encroaching wave of paracites. Had there been a few more cracker slayers among the indigenous people history would likey have turned out better.
Clearly you've bought into the Thermian Argument and there's no talking you out of it.
I suppose I have nothing more to say and I'm done trying to convince you that dressed up plot contrivances to excuse genocide are still excuses for genocide.
So you are telling me the plot is wrong, goblins are fully sentient reasonable creatures? Fine, what is the solution then? I know youbliek to write, so what is the answer to the riddle here?
I'm telling you that the plot is a conveniently contrived fiction made by writers that wanted a justified genocide, period. Fiction allows the fiction writer to conjure up any excuse they want to make what they want to happen happen and maybe even make it seem necessary or the lesser of whatever evils.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxV8gAGmbtk
So you are saying, then, the only way to engage with the work is to ignore it completely?
My way to engage with the work is to call it what it is: genocide apologia.
Which is not engaging with the work at all. It is really mid at best, so simply ignoring it is fine I suppose.
That leaves us with my point that I feel like it covers themes found in regular anime in more interesting and nuanced ways than most regular anime. Which you are free to not care about.
Atlas Shrugged conjured up similar convenient fictional contrivances to push its own message, creating a conveniently crude series of plot rails to make the writer's desires necessary and desirable, no matter how horrible the supposedly justified actions are.
Your arguments could be used to defend Mein Kampf, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or any number of other chud/fascist writings, because in every one of those cases the writer already set the stage and you are demanding I humor the writer's fictionalized excuses for what they want me to believe and nod along to.
In GS the setting is grimdark but the plot is actually very wholesome. It is sus that killing animals is part of the setting and not the plot true. However, animals exist. You talk about fascist comparing people to vermin, which implies the existence of vermin. I do not feel you have justified ignoring the plots assertion that goblins are vermin. You don't have to, we don't have to have this conversation. If we are going to have to have the co versatile you do need to take the work on it's on merrits at least a little.
With ayn rand the setting is grimdark and the plot is terrible. The points the plot makes are disproveable in the plot itself just all a mess. If rand created magic worlds where you had to be nechian super men the plot would still fall apart because her solutions about what to do with that are terrible. If she created an airtight work of beautiful fascist fiction, as has be done from time to time, I would just not engage with it.
If you seriously believe the wacky genocide hijinx are wholesome because the writers conjured up excuses for them that you buy into, I really have nothing more to say to you about this.
I'd rather not go further down this cryptofascist genocide apologia rabbithole, no matter how "wholesome" its writers supposedly presented it.
Then we can agree that the show centers female agency in ways unusual for modern art and that is laudable? That really is the only point t I care about here.
I would also say that fantasy genocide is a common enough part of even mainstream liberal art that in this moment it isn't really remarkable, but we have some disagreement there.
I don't really care about the goblins, neither does the author, and neither do you. You care because you feel the goblins are secretly not goblins, but regular people. Which is a claim neither of us are really deeply invested in considering. However it is interesting to consider I think.
Do I have what we are saying accurate here?
Just reading along, this seems accurate? Would it be easier if the goblins weren't so humanoid? What if they were mosquitoes?
That would just be aliens. Except anime hicks has anime ptsd and anime signorny weaver tries to help him to restore her faith in anime God. So a less good anime version of it. Which is still why better than most anime