Ren Zhiqiang, a retired real-estate tycoon with close ties to senior Chinese officials, disappeared in March after he allegedly penned a scathing essay criticizing President Xi Jinping's response to the coronavirus epidemic.
I didn’t say the public health responses were the same, I said that both western imperialist nations and China spent trillions of dollars pursuing economic policy aimed at propping up capitalists, and that many of those specific policies (which are in a list in my post above) were similar.
That less people died in China is not in and of itself evidence of a dictatorship of the proletariat. But the fact that China’s main response to this crisis has been to prop up capitalism, does seem to suggest that the DOTP doesn’t exist there.
I’m sure it wouldn’t seem that way if you assume China has a DOTP, and work backwards from your preferred conclusion while ignoring, or reframing, all evidence that contradicts your conclusion.
Now you’re just projecting. It wouldn’t seem that way to anybody who has spent any time in good faith trying to read and understand about the Chinese political and economic systems. That’s clearly not you. Luckily for us Chinese communists don’t actually care about the vapid criticisms of western leftists who don’t understand their conditions, they’ll keep kicking ass anyway.
Except in this conversation, I’m the only one actually talking about the specific policies the CPC is carrying out. You mentioned their coronavirus response, so I went through and read about the specifics of that response.
It’s not really that hard to understand what they’re doing. Try actually reading about reverse repo agreements or their VAT exemptions, before you pretend like it’s incomprehensible to “western leftists.” Many of the polices are literally the same shit European governments do, or the American government does.
And many policies are very different from anything done in Europe or America, but ultimately capital is subordinate to the party, which is the people’s party, which guides the economy to the benefit of all society. Capitalists that go against this are frequently imprisoned and executed. You can look at who holds positions of power in the government and the party and none of them are capitalists.
I hear the same vague talking points repeated by a number of CPC supporters on here, but the more I look into specifics, whether it be for coronavirus response or “taking control” of the private sector, the more it’s obvious that the Chinese state functions to prop up and defend capitalist relations.
We can explore the specifics of how, why, and at what frequency billionaires are imprisoned or killed, but killing the people behind capital doesn’t change the productive and property relations that create billionaires, not from a Marxist sense anyway.
From everything I’ve read, capitalism in China generates new billionaires at a higher rate than any other national economy. An unusually high number of them are jailed/executed, but their ranks are replaced and expanded.
At least according to the CPC itself, most of the time it would appear to be punishments for corruption or murder or other crimes, not for betrayal of the working class interest. They are not killed so that their means of production can be expropriated and given to the workers, they are killed as individual punishment for crimes. From the extent of the criminality, it would actually seem like corruption is widespread among Chinese capitalists, which is not surprising, because capitalism itself is a petri dish for corruption.
There would appear to be zero trajectory towards transferring ownership and control of the productive forces to the working class, which would be the necessary step to reign in capitalist productive relations and not just the criminality of individual capitalists.
You’re right the responses were the same, that’s why hundreds of thousands died in both countries
I didn’t say the public health responses were the same, I said that both western imperialist nations and China spent trillions of dollars pursuing economic policy aimed at propping up capitalists, and that many of those specific policies (which are in a list in my post above) were similar.
That less people died in China is not in and of itself evidence of a dictatorship of the proletariat. But the fact that China’s main response to this crisis has been to prop up capitalism, does seem to suggest that the DOTP doesn’t exist there.
No, it doesn’t.
I’m sure it wouldn’t seem that way if you assume China has a DOTP, and work backwards from your preferred conclusion while ignoring, or reframing, all evidence that contradicts your conclusion.
Now you’re just projecting. It wouldn’t seem that way to anybody who has spent any time in good faith trying to read and understand about the Chinese political and economic systems. That’s clearly not you. Luckily for us Chinese communists don’t actually care about the vapid criticisms of western leftists who don’t understand their conditions, they’ll keep kicking ass anyway.
Except in this conversation, I’m the only one actually talking about the specific policies the CPC is carrying out. You mentioned their coronavirus response, so I went through and read about the specifics of that response.
It’s not really that hard to understand what they’re doing. Try actually reading about reverse repo agreements or their VAT exemptions, before you pretend like it’s incomprehensible to “western leftists.” Many of the polices are literally the same shit European governments do, or the American government does.
And many policies are very different from anything done in Europe or America, but ultimately capital is subordinate to the party, which is the people’s party, which guides the economy to the benefit of all society. Capitalists that go against this are frequently imprisoned and executed. You can look at who holds positions of power in the government and the party and none of them are capitalists.
I hear the same vague talking points repeated by a number of CPC supporters on here, but the more I look into specifics, whether it be for coronavirus response or “taking control” of the private sector, the more it’s obvious that the Chinese state functions to prop up and defend capitalist relations.
We can explore the specifics of how, why, and at what frequency billionaires are imprisoned or killed, but killing the people behind capital doesn’t change the productive and property relations that create billionaires, not from a Marxist sense anyway.
From everything I’ve read, capitalism in China generates new billionaires at a higher rate than any other national economy. An unusually high number of them are jailed/executed, but their ranks are replaced and expanded.
At least according to the CPC itself, most of the time it would appear to be punishments for corruption or murder or other crimes, not for betrayal of the working class interest. They are not killed so that their means of production can be expropriated and given to the workers, they are killed as individual punishment for crimes. From the extent of the criminality, it would actually seem like corruption is widespread among Chinese capitalists, which is not surprising, because capitalism itself is a petri dish for corruption.
There would appear to be zero trajectory towards transferring ownership and control of the productive forces to the working class, which would be the necessary step to reign in capitalist productive relations and not just the criminality of individual capitalists.