NixOS' influence and importance at pushing Linux forward into the (previously) unexplored landscape of configuring your complete system through a single config file is undeniable. It's been a wild ride, but it was well worth it.

And although it has only been relatively recently that it has lost its niche status, the recent influx of so-called 'immutable' distros springing up like mushrooms is undeniably linked to and inspired by NixOS.

However, unfortunately, while this should have been very exciting times for what's yet to come, the recent drama surrounding the project has definitely tarnished how the project is perceived.

NixOS' ideas will definitely live on regardless. But how do you envision NixOS' own future? Any ETA's for when this drama will end? Which lessons have we learned (so far) from this drama? Are there any winners as a result of this drama? Could something like this happen to any distro?

In case you're out of the loop. Though, there's a lot that has transpired since but which hasn't been rigorously documented at a single place; like how 4 out of 5 NixOS board members have quit over the last 2 months or so.

  • bsergay@discuss.online
    ·
    5 months ago

    Excellent reply! I appreciate it.

    OMG that's a lot of comment lol. My brain is gonna melt when typing a reply to THIS in English. But I guess I can try.

    Yeah lol. I'm sure we'll (somehow) manage.

    Amongst users. It's possible that every big and medium distro will have an immutable spin soon but it won't be too popular.

    Aight. Thanks for (yet) another clarification. I obviously think that 'immutable' distros will heavily influence the future of Linux. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if all big distros will default to becoming 'immutable'. However, that version of an 'immutable' distro may not exist yet. FWIW, it's also (somewhat) in-line with Lennart Poettering's vision.

    I'm sorry but expressing my opinion on it greatly increases the chance of running out of energy which will make my speech absolutely illogical and ridiculous.

    If anything, I'd love to read this. So please, whenever you feel like it, consider returning back on this.

    I indeed made it look like the features of immutable distros are disadvantages to more people than they are advantages to. This is my opinion which might be biased since immutability goes totally against my workflow and the workflows I make for other people.

    Fair. If it isn't too much of a trouble, could you elaborate on your workflow? Like, are you constantly installing new stuff?

    Worse for = not meant for; not meant for = unsuitable imo because there are just better options; this leads to worse = unsuitable. Maybe not completely unsuitable but at least definitely not good for.

    I implore you to use other words going forward 😜. Perhaps I'm wrong, but to me, this seems like an example in which your 'bias' seeps through.

    Ok listen idk much about Nix ecosystem/infrastructure. I meant NixOS here. Sorry for the confusion. The habit of not including the "OS" ending comes from the Android community.

    Don't worry about the confusion 😉. But thanks for your consideration! However, if I understood you correctly, this implies that you don't consider NixOS an 'immutable' distro. Or at least not representative of 'immutable' distros. If this assumption is correct, could you elaborate on why you think that's the case?

    I'm sorry, mister/miss. My attitude to the society, people in general and Lemmy users is negative and suspicious by default. I have my reasons and, no matter how controversial it is, I'm not going to change it. Most of the people by far are bad and toxic so it's ok to make this assumption the default. Again I'm sorry that this my assumption caused inconvenience for you.

    No worries, fam. Again, I appreciate your consideration!

    It may not be a small niche but everything has a niche (even X11, Wayland, GNOME and Windows 10) so immutable distros can have a big one or a small one. As you said, future will tell. I don't see them getting a large (more than 10-20% desktop Linux users) niche any time soon.

    Interesting notion on niche. Which I don't think is necessary unjustified*. Though I am having a hard time coming up with a definition to how I understood your understanding. I initially thought of "everything that's not (necessarily) mainstream". But if you mention Windows 10 as an example, then that can't be it. Perhaps "use" or "preference"? Could you (perhaps) define what you mean with "niche"?

    I don't think it's the case or at least I don't have any information on it.

    Thanks for being transparent! Consider looking into the earlier given examples. Perhaps it's even noteworthy to name some of the competitors that have perished against the alternative: Wayland vs Mir, systemd vs Upstart, Flatpak vs Snap etc.

    Fedora just tries making new and very perspective stuff the first and the stuff always succeeded in the past.

    Interesting. So, do you pose (as an alternative) that merely the successful is adopted? So they didn't necessarily follow whatever Fedora did, but Fedora just happened to be on the winning team. Hence, the winner takes all.

    Btw, what do you mean with "very perspective stuff"?

    In the case of immutable distros, I feel like it's gonna be some nice to watch chaos because new users will have to understand how to disable immutability to install drivers and fixes

    On what 'immutable distros' is 'immutability' disabled for installing drivers? I don't recall the last time "disabling immutability" was mentioned within the discourse for a legitimate reason or fix. At best, some people that don't know how specific changes are meant to be applied on the specific distro they use, succumb to the infamous XY problem and try to do stuff the wrong way. But this is not a problem found exclusively on 'immutable' distros.

    which means much more research (because most answers will just say "disable immutability for the directories that the fix needs" and the user will have no idea of any of that) and terminal commands.

    Honestly, I have never encountered this. I don't know where you get this idea from. I feel like you might have fundamentally misunderstood how (most) 'immutable' distros work. If possible, could you provide a link or anything in which that proposed solution is indeed mentioned most when tackling a specific problem found on an 'immutable distro'?

    Btw, I'm open to the notion that I completely misunderstood what you're saying here. Therefore, if possible, could you mention your notion of what "disable immutability" entails. Like, how does that even work on something like e.g. Fedora Atomic?

    At the same time, immutable systems may be less suitable for advanced users who like tinkering.

    It depends. Some advanced users actually love the reproducible aspect that comes with (most) 'immutable' distros, because this enables them to tinker to their heart's content without being afraid of losing a working system.

    This makes a huge part of the Linux user base.

    While I wouldn't be surprised if this has been the case for the longest time, I do think that as Linux successfully attracts an ever bigger crowd, that eventually a huge part of the Linux user base will consist of normies. And, as it stands, I can only see them go for stable (by release cycle) distros or 'immutable' distros unless some other drastic changes happen in the mean time that enables your Average Joe to run a (semi-)rolling release distro without troubles.