Famously cringe-lib Engels had the same position as Chomsky :)
"The bourgeoisie cannot win political power for itself nor give this political power constitutional and legal forms without at the same time putting weapons into the hands of the proletariat. As distinct from the old Estates, distinguished by birth, it must proclaim human rights, as distinct from the guilds, it must proclaim freedom of trade and industry, as distinct from the tutelage of the bureaucracy, it must proclaim freedom and self-government. To be consistent, it must therefore demand universal, direct suffrage, freedom of the press, association and assembly and the suspension of all special laws directed against individual classes of the population. And there is nothing else that the proletariat needs to demand from it. It cannot require that the bourgeoisie should cease to be a bourgeoisie, but it certainly can require that it practices its own principles consistently. But the proletariat will thereby also acquire all the weapons it needs for its ultimate victory. With freedom of the press and the right of assembly and association it will win universal suffrage, and with universal, direct suffrage, in conjunction with the above tools of agitation, it will win everything else.
It is therefore in the interests of the workers to support the bourgeoisie in its struggle against all reactionary elements, as long as it remains true to itself. Every gain which the bourgeoisie extracts from reaction, eventually benefits the working class, if that condition is fulfilled. And the German workers were quite correct in their instinctive appreciation of this. Everywhere, in every German state, they have quite rightly voted for the most radical candidates who had any prospect of getting in."
And as we all know, the German proletariat won in their struggle by working with liberals and overthrew capitalism and established a rationally governed worker's paradise. Same thing happened in Spain after the socialists worked with the centrist liberals.
Or maybe working with libs and cooperating in liberal electoralism, especially this pointless vote-blue-no-matter-who crap, isn't the only way forward for socialism? Especially after seeing this eternal treadmill of supporting the slightly-less-worse option for 50 years manifestly NOT work and continue to not work. What Is To Be Done?
What is to be done indeed. What do you propose? Armed proletarian insurrection when the left can't even get enough people to vote in a primary for a nice old man promising universal healthcare?
Famously cringe-lib Engels had the same position as Chomsky :)
"The bourgeoisie cannot win political power for itself nor give this political power constitutional and legal forms without at the same time putting weapons into the hands of the proletariat. As distinct from the old Estates, distinguished by birth, it must proclaim human rights, as distinct from the guilds, it must proclaim freedom of trade and industry, as distinct from the tutelage of the bureaucracy, it must proclaim freedom and self-government. To be consistent, it must therefore demand universal, direct suffrage, freedom of the press, association and assembly and the suspension of all special laws directed against individual classes of the population. And there is nothing else that the proletariat needs to demand from it. It cannot require that the bourgeoisie should cease to be a bourgeoisie, but it certainly can require that it practices its own principles consistently. But the proletariat will thereby also acquire all the weapons it needs for its ultimate victory. With freedom of the press and the right of assembly and association it will win universal suffrage, and with universal, direct suffrage, in conjunction with the above tools of agitation, it will win everything else.
It is therefore in the interests of the workers to support the bourgeoisie in its struggle against all reactionary elements, as long as it remains true to itself. Every gain which the bourgeoisie extracts from reaction, eventually benefits the working class, if that condition is fulfilled. And the German workers were quite correct in their instinctive appreciation of this. Everywhere, in every German state, they have quite rightly voted for the most radical candidates who had any prospect of getting in."
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/02/12.htm?fbclid=IwAR11eYPsh2tNuzxO97zztPlicSn3fLlIYVVlRC7aNeBSonYUHEn5NDyRUkg
And as we all know, the German proletariat won in their struggle by working with liberals and overthrew capitalism and established a rationally governed worker's paradise. Same thing happened in Spain after the socialists worked with the centrist liberals.
ok I guess everything is hopeless then and we should all just kill ourselves :)
Or maybe working with libs and cooperating in liberal electoralism, especially this pointless vote-blue-no-matter-who crap, isn't the only way forward for socialism? Especially after seeing this eternal treadmill of supporting the slightly-less-worse option for 50 years manifestly NOT work and continue to not work. What Is To Be Done?
What is to be done indeed. What do you propose? Armed proletarian insurrection when the left can't even get enough people to vote in a primary for a nice old man promising universal healthcare?