well, fuck KPD for not aligning with the party that violently suppressed the socialist uprisings and killed KPD's leaders I guess

  • CoralMarks [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    SPD stans, the worst history revisionists there are. Don't get me started :rosa-shining:

  • 7DeadlyFetishes [he/him,comrade/them]
    ·
    4 years ago

    How much are we all willing to bet 99% of this guys history knowledge came from animated Youtube videos and that weird tank anime?

    -7DeadlyFetishes

  • CrimsonSage [any]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Liberals feel entitled to power. Any disagreement with them is either foolish or objectively wrong, and therefore morally wrong. No matter what political actions the SPD took visa vis the KDP, they were owed support, and any refusal is in and of itself grounds for their blame and punishment, regardless of the circumstances.

  • neebay [any,undecided]
    ·
    edit-2
    4 years ago

    "if you don't treat me nicer, the fascists will win and it will be your fault"

    • guy who joined a fascist paramilitary unit to shoot you
  • ultraviolet [she/her]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Both Hitler and Stalin knew there was going to be a German-Soviet war, these agreements were just to buy them time. This guy is a dumbass.

    • BeamBrain [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      Any time a lib brings up Molotov-Ribbentrop, I just mention the Munich Agreement.

    • BasedGiraffe [none/use name]
      ·
      4 years ago

      SPD literally appointed Hitler as Chancellor

      I mean, the only person who could appoint chancellor was Hindenburg, so not literally, and I’m not sure where you’re getting this from because I thought Franz Von Papen was the biggest influencer for that and he was a conservative?

      Do you have a source for the point you’re trying to make or disputes mine that I could see?

        • BasedGiraffe [none/use name]
          ·
          4 years ago

          I think it could be better argued that the SPD killing Rosa and Karl and doing social fascist shit like that made them an enemy to the KPD which prevented any cooperation against Hindenburg, than it could be to say the SPD appointed Hitler by failing to stop Hindenburg.

          If you establish the SPD failing to get a competent coalition against Hindenburg as being the same as appointing Hitler chancellor, I can’t see why someone couldn’t make the same argument about the KPD here. I just don’t agree with the argument based on what I know here.

          There are also people here completely unfamiliar with German history who might see your “literally appointed Hitler chancellor” and try and argue that without knowing anything else, which I felt the need to dispute.

            • BasedGiraffe [none/use name]
              ·
              edit-2
              4 years ago

              Doesn’t that link say the SPD supported the centrist candidate not Hindenburg? Also that the KPD ran their own candidate?

              Doesn’t this just show an inability for the KPD to consider working with the SPD because of the fucked up shit they kept doing? My understanding is that fascism was underestimated at the time despite being fought against in the street. Maybe I have to read more perspectives on it, but i thought the KDP didn’t really expect to all be rounded up and killed if Hindenburg got in? The SDP sucked so why would they work together if they didn’t think it was totally necessary, and they both supported different candidates is my understanding at the moment, but idk if that’s correct and will read up more later

  • 4_AOC_DMT [any]
    ·
    4 years ago

    I don't know enough about history to effectively repudiate shit like this , but I feel like I'm encountering more of these dogmatic history-understanders every day.

    Is the source they recommend good? In either case, can someone recommend some better reading? The Jakarta Method was easy to digest, but a lot of European history books on that era are both dense and long (and this is intimidating to my stem sensibilities).

    • CoralMarks [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      They couldn't have opposed Hitler electorally anyways from becoming chancellor because they even together never had a majority in parliament and the centrists were of the opinion that they could control Hitler and basically use him as a puppet to further their own conservative ideas, so that point is just moot.

      Here is an overview of the election results of that time. It is in German but should be easily understandable. Otherwise, you can look at them in English on the respective wikis but they aren't as nicely grouped together to get a quick overview which makes it a bit harder to comprehend IMO.

      • 4_AOC_DMT [any]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Thank you! It really did feel like this person was applying modern liberal wonkery to an incomplete understanding of history, but I have a woefully incomplete understanding of history of that era too. Can you recommend any good texts on this stuff that won't just feel like memorizing lists of years and names?

        • CoralMarks [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          I had to look a bit for some okay overview because I'm German myself so I learned a lot of it in school and through reading things here and there bit by bit so I don’t really know what books to suggest out of hand, but I found this article that describes the events pretty well I think.

          This is the most relevant part to the question at hand in my opinion(although I'm sure the rest probably won't hurt to read either):

          spoiler

          The role of political instability in the Nazi rise to power

          The political instability in the late 1920s and early 1930s played an important role in helping the Nazis rise to power.
          This topic will explain how the political situation escalated from the hope of the ‘Grand Coalition’ in 1928, to the dismissal of von Schleicher and the end of the Weimar Republic in 1933.

          The ‘Grand Coalition’

          In June 1928, Hermann Müller had created the ‘grand coalition’ to rule Germany. This coalition was made up of the SPD, DDP, DVP and the Centre Party: parties from the left and right. Müller had a secure majority of 301 seats out of a total of 491. Political parties seemed to be putting aside their differences and coming together for the good of Germany.
          But this was not how it worked out. The parties could not agree on key policies and Müller struggled to get support for legislation.
          As the aftermath of the Wall Street Crash hit Germany and unemployment spiralled, the government struggled to balance its budget. On top of its usual payments, the amount of people claiming unemployment benefits was increasing. As the government struggled to agree on the future of unemployment benefits, Müller asked Hindenburg for the use of Article 48 to try and restore stability.
          President Hindenburg was a right-wing conservative politician and therefore disliked having the left-wing SPD in power. He refused Müller‘s request. Müller resigned on the 27 March 1930.

          Brüning’s government

          Müller’s successor was Heinrich Brüning. Although he did not have a majority of seats in the Reichstag, Brüning was well-respected by Hindenburg. Brüning increasingly relied upon, and was granted, use of Article 48. This set a precedent of governing by presidential decree and moved the Republic away from parliamentary democracy.
          As the economic crisis worsened in 1931, Brüning struggled to rule effectively. Extremism became more popular as people desperately sought a solution.
          After a disagreement over provisions for the unemployed in 1932, Hindenburg demanded Brüning’s resignation.

          Von Papen and von Schleicher

          A new election was called, and von Papen replaced Brüning.
          Von Papen agreed with the conservative elite that Germany needed an authoritarian leader to stabilise the country. He called for another election in November 1932, hoping to strengthen the frontier against communism and socialism.
          Whilst the left-wing and socialist SPD did lose votes, so did the right-wing Nazi Party. The Communist Party gained votes, winning eleven more seats in the Reichstag. Once again, no one party had a majority. The election was a failure.
          Following von Papen’s failure, Hitler was offered the chancellorship, but without the right to rule by presidential decree. He refused, and von Schleicher became chancellor.
          However, without a majority of his own in the Reichstag, von Schleicher faced the same problems as von Papen. Hindenburg refused to grant von Schleicher permission to rule by decree.
          Von Schleicher lasted just one month.

          The role of the conservative elite in the Nazi rise to power

          The conservative elite were the old ruling class and new business class in Weimar Germany. Throughout the 1920s they became increasingly frustrated with the Weimar Republic’s continuing economic and political instability, their lack of real power and the rise of communism. They believed that a return to authoritarian rule was the only stable future for Germany which would protect their power and money.
          The first move towards this desired authoritarian rule was Hindenburg’s increasing use of Article 48. Between 1925-1931 Article 48 was used a total of 16 times. In 1931 alone this rose to 42 uses, in comparison to only 35 Reichstag laws being passed in the same year. In 1932, Article 48 was used 58 times.
          The conservative elite’s second move towards authoritarian rule was helping the Nazi Party to gain power. The conservative elite and the Nazi Party had a common enemy – the political left.
          As Hitler controlled the masses support for the political right, the conservative elite believed that they could use Hitler and his popular support to ‘democratically’ take power. Once in power, Hitler could destroy the political left. Destroying the political left would help to remove the majority of political opponents to the ring-wing conservative elite.
          Once Hitler had removed the left-wing socialist opposition and destroyed the Weimar Republic, the conservative elite thought they would be able to replace Hitler, and appoint a leader of their choice.
          As Hitler’s votes dwindled in the November 1932 elections, the conservative elite knew that if they wanted to use Hitler and the Nazis to destroy the political left, they had to act quickly to get Hitler appointed as chancellor.
          Von Papen and Oskar von Hindenburg (President Hindenburg’s son) met secretly and backed Hitler to become chancellor. A group of important industrialists, including Hjalmar Schacht and Gustav Krupp, also wrote outlining their support of Hitler to President Hindenburg.
          The support of these figures was vital in Hindenburg’s decision to appoint Hitler as chancellor. Once elected, the conservative elite soon realised that they had miscalculated Hitler and his intentions.