If I'm being completely honest, I dont really believe we have free will. Or we do, but in an almost entirely meaningless way on a civilizational scale. While you might be able to make small choices, material conditions and the flow of history ultimately decide the course of your life. We're all just products of our environment which none of us can change on our own, and as much as we can change our environment as a collective is decided upon by current conditions which are determined by oast conditions, etc. Basically i think the entirity of history was determined at the big bang, and were all just along for the ride.

  • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]
    ·
    4 years ago

    For everything to be predestined, every subatomic particle needs to have a sort of memory, or information storage, that contains the instructions for how it will act in every stochastic process, throughout all of time.

    Between infinite storage in each particle and tapping into a true randomness generator, the randomness generator is more plausible to me.

    This doesn't mean we have full choice over things, but there is a scope for more than just predictable behavior. The brain is affected by genetics and environment, but as a complex system it is also affected by itself. This third influence is more of a cascade of randomness than anything else.

    • axont [she/her, comrade/them]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Your premise isn't valid. I could also claim there needs to be instructions for how to behave randomly inscribed onto every election. You're contrasting the two by saying one is necessarily more complex and one is more intuitive, so the intuitive one wins out, although I don't find either proposal intuitive. Predestination could be nothing more than subatomic particles settling into place due to the angle of their initial movement, like billiards balls settling into place after being struck. One could predict where balls on a billiards table will end up before or during the moment they're struck due to the initial velocity, the angles, the friction of the table, all of that. That doesn't mean there's information implicitly stored within the balls themselves.

      • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]
        ·
        4 years ago

        Predestination could be nothing more than subatomic particles settling into place due to the angle of their initial movement, like billiards balls settling into place after being struck.

        You are embarrassing yourself a little here.

        The laws of classical mechanics do not extend to the subatomic level. We haven't had any way of predicting the behavior of individual subatomic particles; we can only statistically model them moles at a time.

        For instance, an unstable atom will eject an alpha or beta particle at some point. We can know everything we can about an atom of radium, for instance, and still have no idea when it will break down. Either that is an intrinsic lengthy characteristic carried by the elementary particles for eternity and then computed, or it's truly random.

        • StLangoustine [any]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          The fact that quantum mechanics appears random doesn't meant that underlying laws are not are not deterministic. The idea that it's all cellular automata or hypergraphs or whatever convoluted math down inside is in vogue nowadays.

            • StLangoustine [any]
              ·
              4 years ago

              My physics is very rusty, but from looking up in wikipedia Bell's theorem only disproves local hidden-variable theory. Non-local ones might be stupid for other reasons but this haven't stopped supposedly knowledgeable people from talking about them.

          • infuziSporg [e/em/eir]
            ·
            4 years ago

            If they were deterministic, they would have do be doing a pretty impeccable job of causing an appearance of being truly stochastic.

            "God" either does play dice, or emulates playing dice.