Disengage

I am pretty isolated as a striving vegan, like you say when I talk to people especially on the left I just assume that they are already inclined towards veganism and talk try to talk to them with respect and listen.

I haven't seen that kind of respect here until seeing your comment. I genuinely think it's just a safe vector for white people to take out their racial grievances because I have never seen that tactic actually work on a non-white person because it's always punching down and they never listen. Like you can't reach people if you already hate them, they can feel it and it's the same feeling of disgust as racism.

Like I am supposed to be pushed to change both myself and family by someone that already hates both myself and family. I see the posts on /c/vegan mocking indigenous people all the time. Yeah it's used as a strawman but I genuinely believe the number of militant carnists on Hexbear (and the principled left writ large) is very low and that most people do just feel bad about it, and even if I can communicate that well enough and do have the vocabulary to explain it I am almost always just treated terribly and dismissed as a strawman.

The thing is that most POC I know haven't been to college, they don't have vocabulary or rhetorical training to communicate these things so they are treated even worse than I am by white vegans. They're treated like this because the people disrespecting and abusing them were raised white first and chose to be vegan second, that's the primary contradiction that I think has to be understood and I don't know why it isn't the first thing taught to vegan cadres (or whatever they are called).

I have never once met a white vegan that greeted me with respect, and that's why I think it (white veganism, first wave veganism, whatever it can be called) is a dead end. All my friends (mostly non-white) had extremely hostile reactions to veganism, I tried reaching out to them as equals and got them to open up to the idea just by asking them "why not" and offering them vegan food and recipes. Getting them to switch to plant milk, etc. It's not much but it was progress and it was easy, I am sure it will be much harder beyond that but I always try to be with them.

I really do believe it's racism, some strain of calvinism, and chauvinism, I don't see it working at all and that's why it feels like they're doing it for themselves or some idea in their heads rather than the people and animals in front of them.

Queer spaces usually are racist and it's extremely isolating and well documented

I am queer and yes it sucks that a lot of POC spaces are often also anti-queer

I prefer dealing with somewhat homophobic POC people because at least they can't be racist (in the same way) and weird and chauvinistic (especially paternalistic) towards me. They can be the same kind of passively hostile that I have to deal with every day.

If you are a POC in a queer space (almost always white dominated) you can either be a pet that has to behave or be ostracized. You can imagine the kind of disgusting liberal condescension and lecturing when you're a queer POC communist in a white queer space. I would rather deal with the feeling of being an outcast than being an outcast among outcasts.

Outcasts take all more abuse out on you because they've received more abuse and think you are stepping out of line.

Yes by default it's safer to assume that queer spaces will be pretty explicitly racist unless they are specifically spaces for poc.

I'm genuinely crying comrade thank you for understanding

I'm not even justifying carnism. Holy fucking shit if I have to listen to another white person talk over me I am going to shoot someone.

Maybe stop automatically taking allegations of racial insensitivity in bad faith just because you've seen it done in bad faith before.

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This is why I assume you and every other white vegan I meet is fucking racist.

You can't imagine people having genuine racial grievances with how you handle yourself and talk to people. White queer spaces have glaringly obvious racial issues but vegan spaces?

An goal that literally requires educating and yes, socially policing other people's behavior hasn't inherited centuries of racism and colonialism.

You hear it a lot because it's a real fucking problem regardless of whether it's taken in bad faith by people who don't give a shit or if people don't know how to articulate it.

I hope you get banned. You never fucking listen because you never cared about brown people to fucking begin with.

You can't handle a fucking intersection without using the word bloodmouth the same way you'd call me an actual slur.

Oh am I supposed to apologize for all the carnists that talk in bad faith? What do you sit with a group of black men and assume they're all homophobes too?

I'm telling you you genuinely don't know how to fucking talk to brown people and I don't even know if you care because it sounds like you've given up and you're just chasing clout.

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My favourite tactic is being hostile to everyone so that everyone hates me and nobody has changed

I also like lecturing and condescending to people and pushing my particular issue on ACAB spaces where all the brown people hang out and sucking all the fucking oxygen out of the room

Wow where'd all the brown people go?

"Never stop explaining" is when you drive-by and wokescold on ACAB to feel good

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Enver_Hoxha except you're cashing in your diet clout on /c/ACAB

:pika-pickaxe:

Also the GPU on PS3 was ass

What happened in Cuba?

Oh

:baseball-crank:

Nah he blissed out 😻🐸

This got me so bad I threw up in my mouth lmao

:heart-sickle:

Joke about Francis Fukuyama's "the end of history"