Was asked in the discord, so might as well make the essay a hexbear post, right? My most recent research can best be described as "analyzing all mentions of FDS during the week on reddit", which is far from exhaustive, but the allegations against FDS are not new in general.

So at the root core, the sub has a sociopathic philosophy of exploiting value out of men, and dehumanizing men that have less value for exploiting. This includes using terms like "scrotes" and "LVM" (low value men). The central idea behind "value" can be oversimplified as "marry a guy with money". The sub is dedicated to strategies around that philosophy.

I just happen to be a Marxist Feminist, which vaguely means I think exploitation is bad.

They use some kind of script to autoban people who post in threads in other subreddits that criticize FDS.

They ban people for stepping out of line with the core philosophy or questioning the rules.

I've seen reports/allegations that at least one mod could be racist, transphobic, anti-sexworker, etc.

During my research, I found that most conversation about FDS was going on in MGTOW and redpill type subs. The primary complaints I did see seemed to be about the actual toxic behavior in FDS, even if the male comments in complaint threads were also expectedly toxic.

The main counternarrative to FDS is to describe them as "female incels" which I find distasteful because femcels actually already exist, and is punching down at both incels and femcels, and they seem to be technically more voluntarily celibate, if only for the sake of withholding value to extract value.

There wasn't a lot of feminist conversation going on about it, other than a single example of a black woman in r/blackladies complaining about an allegedly racist mod.

One sub explicitly mentions "Do not dehumanize others. RedPill, incel, Femcel, FDS, PUA, MGTOW, etc. content is not allowed. Ignorance of these hate groups is not an excuse to parrot their ideology." in a comment removal message /r/datingoverthirty

I did get some tradwife vibes from a few things.

somebody created r/femaledatinghelp which I joined instead of continuing to promote r/twoxdating.

  • zeal0telite [he/him,they/them]
    ·
    3 years ago

    I'm a cis dude. Getting that out the way first.

    I get that women have bad experiences with men, and a great deal of care has to be taken when dating them especially because you never know if this guy will kill you if you say or do the wrong thing.

    But they just seem miserable. Toxicity breeding toxicity. If they ever succeed and do find a guy with lots of money or whatever, all power to them I guess, but I don't think they'll truly be happy until they learn that there is a way to actually have a non-toxic relationship with men.

    A lot of what they post is true. Women do have to put up with a lot of bullshit from men, even in relationships. A quick glance of the Hot section shows several "jokes" and comments I've heard men make before. The "old ball and chain" type humour, like having a wife is a chore. Fuck that stuff. But the reactionary element comes from the response to that culture. An understandable response, but a toxic one nonetheless.

    I view them the same way I view incels. Kind of a sympathetic pity, pity that they do feel the way they do, but also pity that the got sucked into a toxic echo chamber that only reinforces their toxic views.

    • RowPin [they/them]
      ·
      3 years ago

      If they ever succeed and do find a guy with lots of money or whatever

      https://www.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/n4srq0/is_bill_gates_lvm/

      The greatest thread in the history of our forums, locked after 500 pages of heated debate.

    • Toronja [none/use name]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Why is it a toxic view? It's not women's responsibility to teach men to respect women.

          • zeal0telite [he/him,they/them]
            ·
            3 years ago

            Yeah, because it's a defeatist and misandrist one.

            I never said that the burden lay on women to teach men to be better. I'm not sure where you're getting that at all.

            /r/FemaleDatingStrategy is conservative. They regularly dismiss sex workers, call consensual BDSM "abuse" and demand that men must act in their favour at all times otherwise they are a "low-value male". They maintain patriarchal attitudes that favour them and dismiss those that do not. They are toxic because they latch onto an otherwise at-risk group and turn them into reactionaries.

            • Toronja [none/use name]
              ·
              3 years ago

              I got that from you saying that it's a toxic sub; To you, it's a toxic sub because they call out all the ways men exploit women through the patriarchy - and even suggest ways for men to be better partners in their FAQ -

              There's nothing consensual about BDSM or sex work in patriarchy and capitalism; Just like your boss now pretends to be your friend, men pretend to be equal to women, if anything, they only have the choice to pick their oppressor now.