Disagree. The scene was cut from the original version for a good reason - it establishes nothing that wasn't already covered by the Han-Greedo scene. Putting it in just slows the pace of the film's first act.
Yeah but my point is that all of that was already covered in Han's conversation with Greedo. You don't need two scenes where he says "you think I had a choice? even I get boarded some times".
I think I’ve identified a key point of disagreement. You value shorter run times. I am the opposite. 3 hours min given the price point. Also, longer movies get to tell more complex stories and ought to be encouraged. Example: the last duel.
Different movies should be edited different and there isn't a universally good movie length. Something like star wars should be 90 minutes to 2 hours. I can vibe with a long movie but I don't think it's how they all should be
I think I under appreciated your point earlier. Upon further reflection, I am projecting my own desire for what could have been upon what was.
Lucas didn’t give a shit about the EU. I was just coping and he probably did it for the sheer sake of more sales and getting fro play with new CGI toys.
Thank you for pushing back. Sometimes the best way to find the truth is being told you’re wrong.
I’ll die on the the hill that the smuggler elements are good content though.
I have been imagining the atsr wars prequels, andor and the OT being a TV series and written by J Micheal Strazynski (Babylon 5, if you haven't, watch it, you will have a hard time getting hooked cause season 1 is half pleasing the network and half setup, the plot for the first 4 seasons was planned 5 years before they started filming, the dude was a sociology and history Guy and wrote EVERY episode after season 2, it's like the premise of ds9 with the depths of The Wire). Really do a slow burn, make the entire galaxy real in a way the EU is also too Lucas Brained for. Just basically Andor it up the whole way through and really make it about the Space Politics. I don't give a shit about Jedi, keep em in the background or don't even use them.
I'm not a Star Wars Fan aside from the first movie and Andor, those are super close to my heart. The rest of the OT used to be, Empire actually fell in my regard on a rewatch this week. The pacing of that movie has fucking issues. The first scene is Luke talking to Han over a radio and then being smacked by a yeti, there is no place setting at all, no knowledge of where the characters are since we last saw them both physically and development wise, cause Luke has learned a bit more jedi shit and Han has apparently stuck around with the rebellion for a while and it's just kinda dumped in our laps. It's 14 minutes in that Han is slicing into TonTon. Then it's FOREVER with Luke with Yoda and the falcon gang in the asteroid belt and then worm. It also seems like Luke spends months with Yoda while the rest of the cast spend days evading the Empire but it's the same hard to define frame of time. All of it is full of great stuff but how it's put together is really jarring, the wipe and button cuts add to this effect. So although this sounds like a contradiction, Empire could have stood to slow down. Could have been the same length but maybe kept a more gradual beginning have the battle of hoth be a third of the way into the movie instead of 20 minutes in, then the slow down after is briefer. The cloud city stuff also feels rushed. Cut the asteroid worm stuff, add more cloud city and establish Lando better and imply they stay there for longer so Luke's training is implied to have taken place over more than a week. I think the first movie non special edition is perfectly paced and an overall almost flawless movie for me, but I'm weird and like short and slow movies and 70s weird indie shit is that and the first Star Wars is thst kind of film making on a high budget. Empire is the fast paced Hollywood version. I had thought Empire was better but Star Wars was my fave. As of two days ago I just think Star Wars is better.
Please think critically for a second. If in Episode 2 when Obi is arguing with that Droid about the location of a planet, after he left the camera just panned back to the robot who then spent 5 hours rattling of cosmology facts, explaining the precise orbits of a few dozen planets that are never otherwise mentioned, along with their moons, that would be "a more detailed world" and a shitpost of a bad film.
I'm not that big a jerk, I just think you're lying and would go to sleep by hour 3 just like virtually any other human who didn't leave by that point.
If it helps your insight into NT sensibilities (or, more accurately, sensibilities of people who aren't your particular type of ND, since I'm not really NT either), what the other guy is arguing for and what I am arguing for is essentially elegance. The point isn't brevity but that information has a narrative purpose. It's okay for there to be a shit ton of information and for things to take a long time if it all has a purpose (like the Chimera Ant arc in HunterxHunter) Being told a bunch of numbers about planets that don't exist, have never been mentioned, and will never be mentioned is completely hollow from a storytelling standpoint. It's just a dump of information that is completely worthless because there is nothing that you can actually do with it. There is no story connected to it, no themes it expresses, not even any academic benefit since it's all fake and not particularly hard scifi. It expresses no substantial ideas, just a vomiting of data. Many things are basically a vomiting of worthless data on some level, I just constructed the example to try to make this quality as blatant as possible to help you understand.
That scene sucks because Han would not fucking walk over jabbas tail and make him squeak without being iced by other members of the crime syndicate. It would be like some nobody runner pinching sonny and calling him a microdick and then just walking away unscathed.
Counterpoint: When the empire freezes him, they just put him on display and then repeatedly try to kill him when people try to break him out, and all this without basically any complicating of his relationship with Jabba prior. Han should have at least had the shit kicked out of him for what he did, especially since his debt was past due.
That scene was good even if the CGI was bad. Or maybe I’m biased because I read the novelization first that included it.
Disagree. The scene was cut from the original version for a good reason - it establishes nothing that wasn't already covered by the Han-Greedo scene. Putting it in just slows the pace of the film's first act.
Disagree because it ties into the, by the early 90s, established lore of Han’s time working as a smuggler for Jabba.
The old expanded universe had a lot of lore about Han’s time as a glorified drug dealer.
Yeah but my point is that all of that was already covered in Han's conversation with Greedo. You don't need two scenes where he says "you think I had a choice? even I get boarded some times".
Eh, it adds additional details. A more detailed world is better.
It adds an unnecessary scene to the run time. It was a smart chop.
I think I’ve identified a key point of disagreement. You value shorter run times. I am the opposite. 3 hours min given the price point. Also, longer movies get to tell more complex stories and ought to be encouraged. Example: the last duel.
Different movies should be edited different and there isn't a universally good movie length. Something like star wars should be 90 minutes to 2 hours. I can vibe with a long movie but I don't think it's how they all should be
I think I under appreciated your point earlier. Upon further reflection, I am projecting my own desire for what could have been upon what was.
Lucas didn’t give a shit about the EU. I was just coping and he probably did it for the sheer sake of more sales and getting fro play with new CGI toys.
Thank you for pushing back. Sometimes the best way to find the truth is being told you’re wrong.
I’ll die on the the hill that the smuggler elements are good content though.
I have been imagining the atsr wars prequels, andor and the OT being a TV series and written by J Micheal Strazynski (Babylon 5, if you haven't, watch it, you will have a hard time getting hooked cause season 1 is half pleasing the network and half setup, the plot for the first 4 seasons was planned 5 years before they started filming, the dude was a sociology and history Guy and wrote EVERY episode after season 2, it's like the premise of ds9 with the depths of The Wire). Really do a slow burn, make the entire galaxy real in a way the EU is also too Lucas Brained for. Just basically Andor it up the whole way through and really make it about the Space Politics. I don't give a shit about Jedi, keep em in the background or don't even use them.
I'm not a Star Wars Fan aside from the first movie and Andor, those are super close to my heart. The rest of the OT used to be, Empire actually fell in my regard on a rewatch this week. The pacing of that movie has fucking issues. The first scene is Luke talking to Han over a radio and then being smacked by a yeti, there is no place setting at all, no knowledge of where the characters are since we last saw them both physically and development wise, cause Luke has learned a bit more jedi shit and Han has apparently stuck around with the rebellion for a while and it's just kinda dumped in our laps. It's 14 minutes in that Han is slicing into TonTon. Then it's FOREVER with Luke with Yoda and the falcon gang in the asteroid belt and then worm. It also seems like Luke spends months with Yoda while the rest of the cast spend days evading the Empire but it's the same hard to define frame of time. All of it is full of great stuff but how it's put together is really jarring, the wipe and button cuts add to this effect. So although this sounds like a contradiction, Empire could have stood to slow down. Could have been the same length but maybe kept a more gradual beginning have the battle of hoth be a third of the way into the movie instead of 20 minutes in, then the slow down after is briefer. The cloud city stuff also feels rushed. Cut the asteroid worm stuff, add more cloud city and establish Lando better and imply they stay there for longer so Luke's training is implied to have taken place over more than a week. I think the first movie non special edition is perfectly paced and an overall almost flawless movie for me, but I'm weird and like short and slow movies and 70s weird indie shit is that and the first Star Wars is thst kind of film making on a high budget. Empire is the fast paced Hollywood version. I had thought Empire was better but Star Wars was my fave. As of two days ago I just think Star Wars is better.
Please think critically for a second. If in Episode 2 when Obi is arguing with that Droid about the location of a planet, after he left the camera just panned back to the robot who then spent 5 hours rattling of cosmology facts, explaining the precise orbits of a few dozen planets that are never otherwise mentioned, along with their moons, that would be "a more detailed world" and a shitpost of a bad film.
I realize you are going are going to say mean things in response to this, but I would actually enjoy that.
I'm not that big a jerk, I just think you're lying and would go to sleep by hour 3 just like virtually any other human who didn't leave by that point.
If it helps your insight into NT sensibilities (or, more accurately, sensibilities of people who aren't your particular type of ND, since I'm not really NT either), what the other guy is arguing for and what I am arguing for is essentially elegance. The point isn't brevity but that information has a narrative purpose. It's okay for there to be a shit ton of information and for things to take a long time if it all has a purpose (like the Chimera Ant arc in HunterxHunter) Being told a bunch of numbers about planets that don't exist, have never been mentioned, and will never be mentioned is completely hollow from a storytelling standpoint. It's just a dump of information that is completely worthless because there is nothing that you can actually do with it. There is no story connected to it, no themes it expresses, not even any academic benefit since it's all fake and not particularly hard scifi. It expresses no substantial ideas, just a vomiting of data. Many things are basically a vomiting of worthless data on some level, I just constructed the example to try to make this quality as blatant as possible to help you understand.
I don’t really know how to say this, but you put those words in order just the right way. It all followed. A——Z it made sense by flowing.
I am the kinda guy who just enjoys reading a wiki. I actually do enjoy that thing you say puts me to sleep.
That being said, you’ve made yourself clear and I think I get your point. I’ll try and rephrase things in a normie friendly manner. Mostly at least.
Although still in the original you can see three or four Greedos in the background behind the millennium falcon while they escape.
That scene sucks because Han would not fucking walk over jabbas tail and make him squeak without being iced by other members of the crime syndicate. It would be like some nobody runner pinching sonny and calling him a microdick and then just walking away unscathed.
The amount of money he was in the hole is a damn strong incentive to try and keep him alive tk lay you back eventually.
If I owe you 100 it’s my problems I owe you a 100k it’s your problem type shit.
Counterpoint: When the empire freezes him, they just put him on display and then repeatedly try to kill him when people try to break him out, and all this without basically any complicating of his relationship with Jabba prior. Han should have at least had the shit kicked out of him for what he did, especially since his debt was past due.
That would be an interesting take on it. I’d buy a ticket to that version of the movie.
Edit: I lied. I’d pirate it. Point stands.
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It wouldn’t bro, buoy different.
Mixed up replies
You sure? We could probs make a funny bit.
I feel you tho. Cheers