From what I understand the modern concept of race arose during the age of colonialism, but before that time, was there any documented accounts of racism against black people by white people?

  • 01100011101001111100 [she/her]
    ·
    3 years ago

    And I think the race part was a lot more tied to the language too, right? I don't think they cared too much about melanin content if you spoke perfect Greek and knew all the customs and worshiped the correct pantheon etc.

    Christman had a good point about race which I'm sure he cribbed from someone else, that melanin content of skin got attached to race because of American slavery. They tried having white slaves and American Indian slaves, but they could run away and just get accepted into another town. But if you were black, it marked you in the new world as a slave. Even if you ran somewhere else everyone knew, because of your skin, you were a slave.

    • RollOfTape [none/use name]
      ·
      3 years ago

      And I think the race part was a lot more tied to the language too, right? I don’t think they cared too much about melanin content if you spoke perfect Greek and knew all the customs and worshiped the correct pantheon etc.

      Even today you can tell European nationals apart by their looks. I guess ancient racism wasn't reduced to skin tones, but I doubt it was solely about language/culture.

      • 01100011101001111100 [she/her]
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        3 years ago

        Oh I agree I bet they could guess someone wasn't born in Greece, but I think since borders were pretty fuzzy then and people mixed much more freely, I bet people were used to seeing a bunch of differences but then being like "oh shit, I thought you were Scythian at first! How's it hanging?" after hearing them speak Greek. It's so weird from our pov because race is such an important thing after centuries of colonialism, I'm trying to wrap my head around a time when borders and nations didn't have strong borders, there was no history of racialized slavery, etc.

        Apparently, Aristotle thought most barbarians had slave-souls and slave-bodies, but they didn't always match. So presumably, regular ancient people probably could tell someone was a non-Greek probably by some phenotypical differences but that non-Greek status was erased if they had Greek culture and language.

          • overeee [none/use name]
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            3 years ago

            I would go to whatever bathhouse they molested the little boys in and blow it up. Imagine human progress without anymore Greek philosopher pedos.

    • overeee [none/use name]
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      3 years ago

      Is there any examples of Greeks discriminating against other Greeks because they were black? I mean we talk about racism as this colonial concept but it must have deeper roots than that, white people must be inherently racist or else racism would not exist.

      • 01100011101001111100 [she/her]
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        3 years ago

        I don't think so for ancient Greeks, I don't think they were against black people anymore than barbarians (i.e. non-Greeks) in general. I know Romans didn't think black people were a big deal, for sure. In fact, if you asked Romans or Ancient Greeks what black people were, they'd probably have no idea what you're talking about - they'd be like: "Berbers and Egyptians etc aren't the same, what are you talking about?" Or ask them what white people were, or tell them that the Greeks, Parthians, Etruscans, Celts, Germanii, etc. were all one race they'd think you were crazy.

        If you consider Racism, as we understand it and in particular about black people, under Dialectical Materialism we must consider what socio-economic forces drove the development of Racism. I think looking into the historical record it's pretty clear that Racism didn't start until the slave trade in the New World. That doesn't mean people were all singing kumbaya, they just had a different conceptions that they split on. Like, for medieval or renaissance people, religion was way more important than ethnicity or even language. I know the medieval people thought quite highly of a mythical figure called "Prester John" whowas supposed to live in Africa and have a highly developed kingdom that was considered super good.

        • overeee [none/use name]
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          3 years ago

          And what color did europeans think prester john was? Racism is internalized much like gender roles are, and this internalization exists entirely within white people, it has always existed even before colonialism put a name towards it, to claim that racism began during colonialism is to deny the existence of white and black people itself. Black people exist, they are a culture and a race and in need of preservation and whites have always sought the destruction of blacks. I recommend you read the works of Wallace Fard Muhammad to educate yourself on history of white people pre-colonialization.

          • Speaker [e/em/eir]
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            3 years ago

            I recommend you read the works of Wallace Fard Muhammad to educate yourself on history of white people pre-colonialization.

            Is this a bit?