Being told this is fairly reliable for info on the situation in Ukraine. let me know if it isn’t. https://liveuamap.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#/media/File:2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine.svg
Being told this is fairly reliable for info on the situation in Ukraine. let me know if it isn’t. https://liveuamap.com/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#/media/File:2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine.svg
Russia: bad
NATO and US: worse
Europe: currently US's lapdogs, so bad
Zelensky: bad
Ukrainian people: good
Russian people: good
media: bad
Ukrainian chuds: bad Russian chuds: bad Western R*dditors thinking they're watching a movie: very bad
what's the charge sheet for that stance on zelensky? seen a lot of people on here hating on him but not much substance tbh.
like stuff beyond him being a lib politician, or having worse people in his national constituency
I disagree with him arming civilians and stopping them from fleeing, but at the same time that's a pretty rational thing to do if you believe youre in a total war, so idk.
Except it's not a total war though. You would have to be incompetent to the point that being removed from power would the objectively best course of action to consider press-ganging civilians with zero combat training to fight in a modern war a rational thing to do, and to actually do it
I think and hope that the pressganging of civilians was almost entirely a front, like a 'look how serious we are' move. I don't expect them to fight in any serious way. could well be wrong.
You absolutely don’t have to hand it to em
This.
If it is a front, it is a fucking horrible one which can only break moral and risk getting civilians labeled as targets. If you are losing and decide to lie for dick measuring, you are not responding to the threat but just saving face.
I agree. If the official government line is that you're arming civilians to fight an urban war, that's a good way to get your civilian population shot at and asked questions later, or for the formal enemy armed forces to pull-off a good ol' Obama drone strike where they kinda can get away with it because the line between combatants and civilian population is blurred.
declaring total war is not a rational thing to do. Nor is using civilians as a shield when you lost. This has not even approached total war and he knows it. He is setting up civilians to kill each other and forcing his people to fight when they wish not to. That's unbelievably vile
he hasn't declared total war, he's reacting to a war that has been launched by russia, I think it's completely rational to think that putin wants to take the country in its totatility, I don't know if it's true but I think it's rational to believe it.
yeah I said I disagree with it, it's fucking grim. but people seem to be giving russia much more benefit of the doubt on very grim realpolitik actions than ukraine, who are fighting a defensive war.
they haven't lost yet, civilians haven't seen any major action yet as far as I know. they probably will lose, I hope civilians don't see major action. treating this as though it is a total war puts ukraine in a stronger position to negotiate if and when it comes to that.
a lot of the reaction on here has been that they hope ukraine surrenders as quickly as possible. I don't think this was ever likely and that probably colours how I see this compared to the rest of you.
Total war was declared when he chose to arm civilians and politicians. Its not about how much of your land the enemy wants. By making civilians targets Zelensky has escalated things to a bloodbath. A full blown annexation does not necessarily mean residential areas becoming craters, but telling civilians to throw molotovs from balconies does. This may or may not benefit HIM at a negotiation, but it will kill more Ukrainians in the process. He wants a slaughter, he is going out of his way to make it a prolonged war, stopping people from fleeing as front-line troops surrender peacefully. Filling those units with old men and boys is not a given just cause it is a defensive war. They have not seen much action, but they have been killing eachother in the confusion and fearmongering. That is on his hands.
Zelensky is a bastard in all of this, through and through. There is no Ukraine to negotiate for when the cities are rubble and you've dragged civilians off the busses to die rather than negotiate now while the military still exists in some form
no it wasn't. if america invaded korea or somewhere and the koreans armed civilians you wouldn't in a million years suggest that korea had declared total war. and you'd be right. it's a very grim thing to do but it's not within a thousand miles of that.
I mean this is a total mis-characterisation of the war that's happening now. the ukraine forces are clearly fighting, losing but fighting.
if civilians start seeing major casualties, the russians start rolling through cities and it turns into insurgency war and he doesn't basically fall on his sword and surrender then I'll agree he's a total ghoul. not seen it yet and the amount of stuff on here that's acting as though it's already happened seems weird to me.
it's okay saying he should have just surrendered but even if he wanted to I don't believe for a second that this liberal jewish bloke is going to go to the army head brass and say "just let them in" and survive the night. just not realistic.
fuck that don't think any early surrender was ever realistic.
He could just declare Ukraine a neutral status or implement minks, none of this shite would happen
I think it's very unlikely that he could have done that and not been couped by the americans
I don't think him specifically or the Ukrainian government more broadly have a great deal of agency in it
In a war occurring? yeah agreed
Zelensky is a fool, but less ghoulish than Petro "100 dead russians for every dead [ukrainian] soldier" Poroshenko.
Nevertheless, forced conscription, volounteer militias of people without age limits, encouraging civilians to become combatants? All pretty questionable stuff.