You see, whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, it depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, “Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life.” If you don’t spend time watching real people, you can’t do this, because you’ve never seen it.
Some people spend their lives interested only in themselves. Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans. And that’s why the industry is full of otaku!
:miyazaki-laugh:
To take things even further I think that the objectification, flanderization, comodification and "othering "of female characters in anime has resulted in it almost exclusively catering incels and otaku that see women (and disturbingly, underage girls) as dolls to fetishise.
Which is frustrating because there is good anime out there that isn't like this, but I can't really say I'm an anime fan without people thinking I'm into moe crap or otakus gatekeeping me because I don't like their moe crap.
I just wanna talk about how cool Full Metal Alchemist is...
I personaly think way too many people easily identify with this meme because it is perfectly suited to reinforce all the negative associations people have about anime.
I never like discussing this meme because a two paragraph quote is far from enough to have a nuanced discussion about anything.
There is always this sort of doomposting about how anime is only either pedoshit or the same lazy tropes. These arguments hinge on taking the worst side of the industry and then ignoring anything good was ever made or is being made, and the few safe tittles/creators tend to be people like Miyazaki.
One of the examples of the lack of nuance is that it seems he is conflicting character design with story writing and animation all in one basket.
In the anime production process those 3 things are entirely separate.
1- The key animators/animation director is the one responsible for natural looking animations and this varies a lot. Go read about OPM dream team of animators, it is not just about budget but a certain small group of talented people having given the time and space(and direction) to do something great.
The thing is even with talented animators the industry demands terrible working conditions and hours, a lot are freelance and barely afford a living. Of course these people are alianated too. So obviously an animator is going to be someone who is working from home 12-14h a day and naturaly an otaku. This isn't pandering but the social economic reality.
Miyazaki isn't an angel I am pretty sure the working conditions on his productions follow the exact same standards as every other. This shit is one of the first google results.
2- Story writing is completely left to writers and directors, when it comes to adaptations it is also very little room for changes. If the issue is bad writing of woman then this is a general issue of society present in Japan but also extremely evident in the west.
Original anime are always risky to make and sometimes these shows end up relying on at least a few tropes to hedge their bets. Still I think the biggest offenders seem to be adaptations, so is anime realy the problem or does this include Japanese manga and light novel industries as well? As a reminder manga is extremely popular in Japan with all demographics.
If anime is a mistake because of misogynistic stories than so is 80-90% of western culture. I am fine with this conclusion and support it but people should understand that this is the argument they are making. I've seen way too many people who like this meme turn around and go watch their latest capeshit/disney shit/netflix copy paste garbage guilty free that they are somehow superior...
3- Character design is also a specialized job, but this decision involves like 3-4 people at most. The director and the production committee calls the shots, but in general visual styles tend to be very era dependent and usually certain studios/directors have a certain visual style they try to replicate.
So if he is complaining about design then is he complaining about literally character design? Because this is also something that is inherited from the source material most of the time. As I said the critique then would be that manga and light novel writers also can't "design" real people.
Seems like a very bold contrarian claim given how extremely popular both of those things are.
It's funny you say that...
Over the years, Miyazaki’s political stance about America’s involvement in global conflicts as well as the country’s contribution towards the globalisation of American culture has been unwavering. “Anti-jeans, Anti-bourbon, Anti-burgers, Anti-fried chicken, Anti-cola, Anti-American coffee, Anti-New York, Anti-West Coast,” Miyazaki once said while describing his beliefs.
As a former marxist who clearly still has materialism and communist beliefs rooted in his core Miyazaki knows exactly what he's saying, even if the wider anime community doesn't really get it or him because his marxism is always glossed over by reactionary western weebs.
You highlight exactly why I don't like this meme, as I said the two paragraph quote is not enough for the whole nuanced take on the subject.
Miyazaki is the western anime "mascot" like Kojima and the gaming industry. Both shit on the west many times in the past but critics keep coming back for more as if his criticism of anime invalidates the medium in support of their own favorite western based form of entertainment. Kojima didn't want to make MGS4 but when the game comes out every critic is circle jerking reviews about how great it was etc without being capable of understanding why MGS4 is a nostalgia trip.
Both Miyazaki and Kojima's critique is also not really totally damning. If it were they would leave the industries. They speak of its ills with extremely harsh critique and displays (Death Stranding) in their art but are also clearly hopeful to hold up that same industry to higher standards. It's a "do better" critique. Two marxists (not really sure I believe miyazaki dropped marxism as it still clearly influences him) at the absolute top of their industries and their political backgrounds are largely ignored in any and all analysis or review of their works.
For example, Kojima critiques america and imperialism relentlessly but it's pretty clear to me that he adores America and wants to believe it will one day live up to its own myth. He seems to view america as a lie but asks it to fight to achieve that lie for real.
This is definitely my reading as well. Kojima feels like a utopian at heart, but one who recognizes how far we are from it.
Them's fightin' words
This is also storytelling though. I don’t want to nitpick because everything you said was correct. But character design is part of telling the story through the “physical” looks of a character. Hence why the “main character hair” or “evil seductress” are such common tropes and their characteristics are often very obvious.
Sometimes the story subverts those tropes by having characters look but act a completely different way, but that’s not often.
Yes and it is even more complicated than that because anime is inherently a stylized representation of reality, without defining what "realistic" means where do you draw the line?
Think about all the anime in high school setting. Is it ok to have all the crazy hair styles and eye colors? Is it ok to have all the extravagant clothing? Is it ok to speak completely differently to how real teenagers speak in Japanese?
You go down the rabbit hole of what it means to design realistic people and the conclusion is you need far more nuance than is allowed for this meme imo. Sometimes it is done for storytelling reasons, sometimes it is done for pandering, sometimes it is a very particular art style a studio/director is known for.
If someone just wants straight up realism go watch a live action drama, but even those are full of tropes, Japanese dramas are also big offenders of this. The issue of "designing real people" is far far deeper discussion than just anime and otakus.
Fair point