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Examples of racism/euro-centrism during the Russia-Ukraine conflict

Add to the above list if you can, thank you.

Resources For Understanding The War Beyond The Bulletins

Defense Politics Asia's youtube channel and their map, who is an independent youtuber with a mostly neutral viewpoint.

Moon of Alabama, which tends to have good analysis (though also a couple bad takes here and there)

Understanding War and the Saker: neo-conservative sources but their reporting of the war (so far) seems to line up with reality better than most liberal sources.

On the ground: Patrick Lancaster, an independent journalist reporting in the Ukrainian warzones.

Unedited videos of Russian/Ukrainian press conferences and speeches.

Yesterday's discussion post.

  • SoyViking [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    The Kiev regime is preparing to officially withdraw from negotiations with Russia

    What has made Kiev so unwilling to negotiate? A while back there were some flickers of hope where they made sensible statements but now they seem hellbent on fighting to the last Ukrainian.

    Why?

    • Is westoid propaganda true, do they actually have a realistic path to victory?
    • Is it some Führer-bunker situation where a mentally unstable Zelensky is ordering make-believe armies to fight back?
    • Is the Zelensky government being threatened by Nazis in the Ukrainian deep state to continue the war regardless of the death and destruction this decision means?
    • Is the Zelensky government cynical American puppets who have been ordered by Washington to fight to the last Ukrainian?
    • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]
      ·
      3 years ago
      • Is westoid propaganda true, do they actually have a realistic path to victory?

      Russia would launch a tactical nuke on Kiev before Ukraine gets anywhere near actualy besieging one of their cities. The political downfall of this for Putin and the military would be unthinkable that if there is one thing western copium may be right about is that Russia will spare nothing and nobody to achieve their modest goals which at this point is just consolidating the south and eastern territories imo.

      Russia is still not fully mobilized in a state of war. If they realy need to they can put 1 million soldiers in Ukraine by the end of the year?

      • Is it some Führer-bunker situation where a mentally unstable Zelensky is ordering make-believe armies to fight back?

      I believe the army has complete control and he is clueless and incompetent anyway. The only thing Zelensky is capable of doing is begging for more foreign aid.

      • Is the Zelensky government being threatened by Nazis in the Ukrainian deep state to continue the war regardless of the death and destruction this decision means?
      • Is the Zelensky government cynical American puppets who have been ordered by Washington to fight to the last Ukrainian?

      Both of these are pretty much confirmed true. The 6 or 8 helicopters plus the spy movie style rescue attempt using a disguised freighter is more than enough evidence that the nazis in Mariupol have more than enough political power to order a rescue mission.

      The second bit of evidence is the last round of negotiations in Turkey where US/NATO told him to walk back all the compromises Ukraine was starting to make. There was a clear immediate and inexplicable shift where Ukraine was starting to make progress and then suddenly they reverted to this insane hard line suicidal stance of making impossible demands. Perhaps Zelensky is completely delusional and truly believes the shitty western equipment will allow them to not only resist but defeat Russia, either way he is not deciding anything in good faith.

      Alexander Mercouris just made a video about this yesterday, this point is brief enough if you want to know more.

      So yes Zelensky is a mere puppet of both NATO and the national nazis. Both do not want peace and are willing to kill their own civilians for it. Obviously the joke is on the nazis they are just western pawns as well.

      • SoyViking [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        I believe the army has complete control and he is clueless and incompetent anyway.

        How can this be? The Ukrainians must have at least some people in the army leadership who knows what they're doing and at some point the intel they receive must reflect reality on the ground.

        • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]
          ·
          3 years ago

          Your original question was a Downfall style situation comparing Hitler's last days to Zelensky in Ukraine. Mentally unstable? Sure but Zelensky does not have real control over the nazis that are part of the military and in turn these nazis have more than enough influence to force decisions e.g Mariupol.

          Even the peace treaty everyone is hoping for carries the assumption that the nazis will accept peace which is wishful thinking given the past 8 years.

          The Ukrainians must have at least some people in the army leadership who knows what they’re doing and at some point the intel they receive must reflect reality on the ground.

          I agree with this, the AFU at least was a professional army the war was never going to be easy, nobody downplayed their strength, only that they don't have the means to fight a global superpower so they don't realy have hopes of winning.

      • voice_of_hermes [he/him,any]
        ·
        3 years ago

        The second bit of evidence is the last round of negotiations in Turkey where US/NATO told him to walk back all the compromises Ukraine was starting to make. There was a clear immediate and inexplicable shift where Ukraine was starting to make progress and then suddenly they reverted to this insane hard line suicidal stance of making impossible demands.

        What is the best writeup of this? I'd love to have it on hand to...remind liberals of...things. Videos are good, but it'd be nice to have something written (too).

        • SeventyTwoTrillion [he/him]
          ·
          3 years ago

          Here's something straight from Putin's mouth, reported in Yahoo:

          "During the talks in Istanbul we managed to achieve quite a significant breakthrough, because our Ukrainian colleagues decided not to make Ukraine's international security guarantees conditional on such issues as internationally recognised borders of Ukraine, essentially bracketing off - with certain caution - [the issue of] Crimea, Sevastopol, and the Russian-recognised Donbas Republics."

          According to the President of the aggressor country, after these agreements have been reached, Russia was faced with the situation in Bucha, Kyiv Region [where Russian troops killed hundreds of Ukrainian civilians], which "the Russian army has nothing to do with," as Putin claimed. Putin complained that after the Bucha atrocities the position of Ukrainian negotiators on further settlement has changed dramatically. According to Putin: "They [members of Ukraine's negotiating delegation] have left behind their earlier intention to separate the questions of security guarantees and the issue of the territories of Crimea, Sevastopol, and the Donbas Republics. They just abandoned it. In their proposed agreement on this issue that they submitted to us they simply noted in two articles that these questions have to be resolved in a meeting between the leaders of the two countries. It is clear that if we defer these questions to the heads of state, without at least preliminarily agreeing on them within the proposed agreement, they will never be resolved. Under these circumstances we simply cannot sign [Ukraine's] security guarantees without first resolving the question concerning the territories of Crimea, Sevastopol, and the Donbas Republics."

          Virtually no progress has been made since.

          Given the totality of evidence on Bucha at least makes the perpetrator unclear (and, as I understand, based on current evidence from the rounds used and the motivations of each party, is more likely to be Ukraine than Russia), if one assumes that it was Ukraine or "rogue" Ukrainian Nazis that did it, then one has to wonder at the motivations. Do the Ukrainian authorities and negotiators genuinely believe that Russia did Bucha? Do they know that it wasn't Russia, but now they've dug themselves into a diplomatic hole, where making peace or surrendering would look bad and cowardly to other people knowing that everybody in the west thinks Russia did an intentional massacre of civilians?