Yes, I know from a rhetorical perspective they're a bunch of jerks who do nothing but complain, but is there an actual takedown of their ideological notions? Because just saying they suck without further explanation makes it hard to dismiss them when they pop up. I don't agree with them, I just want to know why I shouldn't. Something about statues and logic and being chained in a courtyard with wind and all that. I'm not sure where to put this, sorry.
Here’s a comment from a Left-Com on :reddit-logo: trying to explain the core of their belief system. Let me know how far you get before your eyes glaze over lol
TLDR; Commodity-Capital, or the commodity-form of capital, it is the name of products used to make surplus value. It existed in the USSR. Without it, currency would not exist, and things would be distributed by need, rather than the accumulation of value. ML's say it exists in the lower stage of communism, LeftComs say it does not.
Wall of Text: I know you know what it is, but I wanted to explain anyway. Just go down a bit for the answer. :) In capitalist production, objects have two values- a use value and a labour-value. The former is easy to explain- is the thing useful? If so, it has a use value. The latter is how much socially necessary labour-time it took to make the object.
When supply and demand are in equilibrium, this labor-value is equal to the price of the commodity.
From now on, I will just call the labour-value value.
Value used to create more value is called capital, and the director of this capital is a Capitalist. The capitalist wants to create as much Capital as possible, or in other words, wants to accumulate capital.
This is also the inspiration for my username :).
This capitalist invests capital-value in the form of money into buying labour (wages) the the materials used to create commodities (the means of production).
The labour and the means of production combine to create new commodities- the value of the total commodities produced is equal to the value of the labour (called variable capital, or v), plus the value of the means of production (called constant capital, or c), plus Surplus Value, or v, which comes from shortselling the worker out of his value-producing labour. In other words, the value of the product is equal to v + c + s.
This value is all stored in the commodity, and when the commodity is sold, manifests itself in the form of money, or money-capital. Then this money capital is invested back into labour and the means of production, and the cycle begins anew.
The transfer of Money for Commodities can be simplified as M - C. The purchase of Labour and the Means of Production with Money-Capital can be simplified as M - C(L + MP). The production process can be simplified as C(L +MP) ... P ... C', with the ' next to the C symbolizing the extra surplus value added to the commodities. The sale of the newly produced commodities for money can be shortened to C' - M'.
In total, the capitalist cycle can be shortened to
M - C(L + MP) ... P ... C' - M',
which can loop over and over.
Every step of this cycle is a form of capital. When capital is manifested in commodities, it is called the commodity-form of capital.
Both Left-Communists and Marxist-Leninists agree that in a fully Communist world commodities would no longer carry this capital-value, and would only contain a use value- meaning, the products would be distributed based on who needs them, rather than who has money. But while Left-Communists claim this applies for every stage of socialism/communism, Marxist-Leninists claim the lower stage of communism follows LTV, and thus contains commodity-capital. If you belive the latter, the USSR was socialist. If you belive the former, it was capitalist.
Here are the two best examples of evidence for each side:
From Economic Problems of the USSR, by J. V. Stalin.
From Dialouge With Stalin, a direct Left-Communist response to Economic Problems by A Bordiga:
And, finally, here is a quote from Capital Volume 2, Part 3, Chapter 18, Section 1, by K. Marx, which both sides claim supports them respectively. You can decide.
Jfc. It got me a few paragraphs in. It's so condescending
This all makes sense, though
To be fair, I found a decently clear person. My point is they typically pump out walls of text.
But, that's not a reason for them to be disregarded. It just means they're bad at explaining themselves.
I disagree, being unable to clearly communicate is a good reason to disregard them in addition to their total lack of any historical or material wins for the working class.
but most people think WE'RE weird and hard to understand. how are we different?
Problem is: leftcoms failed. They failed so hard that their movements were broken up and diminished before the fascists and neolib war hawks in the 30s-40s could deliver the final death blow. They failed so hard that Stalin had to stop sending them money and restructure the entire ComIntern to focus on Asia where real revolutions were happening.
To put it bluntly: they failed to capture the support of the proletariat by turning marxism into an orthodoxy, and pretty often ignored Engels contributions. And the intellectuals who survived after WW2 set the stage for post-marxist philosophy professors and art teachers to shit on AES states for the next 80 years.
He sent money to leftcoms?
It kinda depends on how you look at it and what year it was, because Euro Communist Parties were a mess and some of their core members were in multiple parties with various beliefs. Some were MLs, some were Leninists but not MLs, some were DemSocs trying to get their parties involved in the bourg govts, some had Anarchist sympathies, some were even Trade Unionists. To give an example: Otto Rühle was a Council Communist who joined the KPD for a year, went to the USSR for a Comintern World Congress, and then immediately split the party.
Yeah, people think that the Stalin era Comintern was some kind of lockstep ideological monolith, when really that was a post 1956 thing.
Thank you for the clarification!
I'm not hard to understand. You can explain communism to a six year old; Big Bird would always share what he has with people who are in need. Big Bird is cool. Therefore sharing is cool. We should base the way we live on sharing instead of keeping all our stuff to ourselves. Even Cookie Monster would share his cookies if he had cookies and someone else did not.
But that same rhetoric is used by Nazi's as well, it's not integral to our ideology, even though it's what we actually believe unlike Nazi's.
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Doesn't mean it's hard to explain. Vietnam and China are both famous for teaching Communist Theory to rural farmers with no formal education in a very short amount of time. The Communist Mainfesto is only 25 pages long and is still snappy and pretty easy to read almost 200 years later. If anything the difficulty is getting through lib ideological programming, not anything complicated about the basic concepts. Yeah, reading Capital is a pain in the ass, but not everyone needs to read Capital or high level theory.
I don't know how many six year olds you know, but the ones I know will happily club another child over the head with a 2 lb plastic Big Bird and take their cookie. With a big smile.
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Out of this wall of text (I skipped the whole math section) and some of the theories they discuss on Swampside Chats podcast, my layman understanding is that they want to abolish money for money's sake and distribute work and resources another way, according to need, directly in socialism, as opposed to having the same mode of production we have right now but with better bosses(DoP) or with worker democracy.
Some more thought out thinkers propose labour vouchers, or standartized work hours, to replicate the function of money as an accounting measure and exchange, but they all IMO have the problem of not offering a way to get there, you just have a revolution and turn on a switch and now everyone just knows to use labour vouchers.