For instance, the Civ games are basically Whig History: The Game, presenting liberal capitalism as the ideal end point for all societies. It even includes uncivilized "barbarian tribes" whose sole purpose is to be exterminated so you can take their land for the glory of capitalism.
nah, Path of Raidence and Radient Dawn are cool.
Things that are enjoyable can still be loaded with pure ideology. I enjoyed the Civ games, and I can't pretend they weren't loaded with it.
that game is much more about prejudice and preconceived notions than anything thematically, it just has a fantasy aesthetic
Path of Radiance is literally about restoring a monarchy, Ike is a class traitor if anything
Nope, it's only about prejudice and preconceived notions. Restoring the monarchy is purely nonpolitical if the game is fun for someone.
and I find the whole notion that Path of Radiance or Radiant Dawn challenges "preconceived notions" hilarious because the good characters are still all beautiful and kind and majestic while the bad guys are ugly inbred troglodytes. You can literally tell who's good or bad in half a second just by observing if their face has a visible deformity.
Agreed.
It's as nonideological as an older Disney movie, and by that I mean it's loaded with ideology that people that enjoy it simply refuse to see.
It's literally a feudalist society how is Ike a class traitor? what is he to do?
In the second game he literally sides with the opressed Laguz.
He is restoring a monarchy and independecne back to a tiny nation that has been taken over by another larger more powerful empire in the first game.
is he suppose to materialize the conditions for a bourgeoise or prolitarian revolution out of thin air??
this shit is stupid.
It isn't monarchist ideology if it's a specific smaller kingdom's monarchy. :think-about-it:
It's possible for something you enjoy to have ideological messages.
So what your saying is Ike should of materialized the conditions for doing away with feudalism out of thin air. :very-smart:
What I was saying is that it is hard to impossible for a piece of fiction to not have ideological messages. That doesn't mean you can't still enjoy them, but getting overly defensive about the ideology being pointed out arguably shows just how effective that messaging was, since the monarchist defenders are being defended even outside of the game.
Fiction doesn't materialize from nothing. Fire Emblem is at its core a monarchist franchise. Enjoyable or not, the ideology's baked in.
If I made a game about the wonder weapons of the Luftwaffe, I'm already presenting an ideological message that the Luftwaffe had weapons that were wonderous, rather than just crackpot projects. It's built into the game's ideology to show them as impressive.
Same deal with Fire Emblem. The game has monarchist destinies baked right into the plot, shows pretty people as good and ugly people as generally bad, and that's just how it is in the fiction because that's sort of part of monarchist ideology, the idea that goodness and badness are inherited and inheritable.
I'll be sure when I make a TRPG to only set it in the midst of a communist revolution from now on.
Is it really that hard to accept that a game about restoring monarchies has ideology about how monarchies are good? I didn't say you couldn't enjoy the game. I play plenty of games that have ideological messages that are contrary to my personal values, but I accept that and play anyway.
I also run tabletop games with monarchs and dynasties, and sometimes those specific monarchs aren't always shown to be absolutely evil to the core (but still benefit from an unjust system and have massive blinders on for the masses' problems).
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:bugs-no: Ike is a gay icon and I will not stand such slander.