i can't believe this exists
Just glancing at the abstract and not having read the paper- looks interesting. Author is trying to do a Marxist analysis of the texts vis-a-vis settler colonialism, with Goblin Slayer as a reactionary re-framing of standard isekai power fantasies (for example, in something like SAO the labour of the protagonist is always rewarded and he is thus non-alienated). What I'm curious is 1) how the author will reckon with other isekai that had their narratives centered on colonialism like Gate or Shield Hero and 2) the relative utility of such criticism of culture/entertainment/soft-power, because as much as they might flatter themselves terminally online weebs aren't the drivers of fascism, it's the politicians who get got by :the-doohickey: (after all, superstructure follows base).
I'll come back and comment more later when I have some time to read thru.
Edit: Ok, having skimmed thru it: 1) he doesn't, rather he just wanted to point out that in general isekai power fantasies are the fantasies of the oppressed proletariat yearning for the end of alienation from their labour with Goblin Slayer as the reaction to the emptiness of that fantasy and 2) his scope was much smaller than I anticipated, my man just wanted any excuse to quote J. Sakai’s Settlers: The Mythology of the White Proletariat.
But most importantly, as the crisis of the system awakens the global proletariat, the ideological justification for keeping it down becomes more and more genocidal. Goblin Slayer emphatically reminds its fans of this fact with vigor.
I like the cut of his jib, author go on Chapo.
:yea:
Thank god recently there's been a trend of isekai stories where they drop the entire "save the world by exploiting it" pretense and replace it with "I retire to the countryside with my big boobed 30 something girlfriend to become a farmer". It's not lesbians overthrowing the bourgeoisie, but it's better than slavery harems. Low bar, I know, but still.
It can go the other way honestly to a reorientation of further escapism. Doubling down, instead of confronting the isekai genre's pitfalls.
The thing is that i find these comfy situations complacent unsustainable without exploitation running in the background irl(ex: underpaid workers and why the americana, your own big farm fantasy is shit).
I don't watch Hollywood shows, but it's intriguing on how much TV in Asia rely on a middle-class fantasy as a dream occupation/occupation of the protagonist. Like cafe owners, bookshops, friendly landlords, and such.
On another tangent obviously i'm not hoping for a marxist art to pop up and just watch that for the rest of my life. Tendency literature, according to Engels, is bad propaganda. Most contemporary leftist art is corny and boring(in terms of form).
There's a reason in why you can appreciate Bambu as a rapper so much, he blends the struggle and his truths, that's why he's not corny. Most non-corny art that incorporate social commentary are either in prestige TV with great form(writing) and not too self-aware(Billions, The Wire) and others have the backing of experience in being organized(Boots Riley, Masao Adachi).
The oppressed are hoping for an ending, and they have to be stuck with vague/bittersweet conclusions? That's supposed to be cinema? Fuck arthouse. Fuck indie. A proper ending is more entertaining.
Those vague shows are just schlock for bougies to teeth on(Succession, The Menu, Tar, Triangle of Sandness as recent examples).
Considering they fund the above shows the ruling class obviously have an eat-the-rich fetish. Fuck them.
Anyone who champions these A24 class signifiers as class struggle entertainment are professional bullshitters. You don't want to engage in a bougie "cinephile's" kink non-consensually. Stop watching eat-the-rich stories.
Good post. Yeah, those shows probably are a further retreat into escapism- I guess they're only preferable in that their form of reaction is less overtly fascistic.
Good point about leftist propaganda. Personally- I think the only way we'll find out how storytelling turns out is when/if we come out the other side of revolution. Right now I'm just taking the frequency of left/right leaning media as a cultural barometer of where we're at.
I know you lot are mostly not Maoists, but How Yukong Moved The Mountains is a great preview about the socialist future.
(In my own words as observation of the film: Even love is different on the other side of the revolution. It's dialectic!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPX2fWgoiyg
Whole thing is about capturing enjoyment from fascist violence (generalization from watching this video 3 years ago)
37 minutes in it talks about the history of it and how its based off/influenced by vile racist shit.
the whole conceit of the show is watch the hero mindlessly slaughter the vile subhumans that rape our women. Like, exact replica of conservative rhetoric
I would like to apologize for the shit that I've given you in the past about Treat Enjoyers. I think I just didn't get it because I hadn't interacted with them enough. I still think it's good to try to flush that voice from one's head, but I can see why it would be difficult and there are worse things you can do than vent about bad things being bad.
I agree. I like some anime that have bad things, I just don't kid myself about the bad things. Hell, I have been meaning to get into Berserk for a long time knowing full well about the bad parts (because Griffith seems interesting and the art is incredible), I've just bounced off it because the series started when the author, Miura, was very young and so it was a bit grimdark in just the way you understandably dislike (and I find boring). I hear it gets better later on and Miura even does a lengthy prequel arc to make the grimdark part a bit more compelling because it establishes characters and motivations leading in to it.
And like the most sordid of incantations, you summoned its apologists.
The curtains are blue!
The curtains have a swastika on them.
No! They're just blue! Not everything is political!
I don't think I've ever seen something more openly fascist without using symbols of real life fascist movements than that fucking first episode. "Through expression of my will of power, I find a final solution to the goblin question so that a secure future could be build for our women and children." Gimme a fucking break. The only thing that comes close is if you take the Starship Trooper movie or spess mehreen dickriding at complete face value and even they didn't have some fascist "we must wipe out the bugs/xenos because they're r-wording our women" anxiety.
morally justify a fascist genocide campaign running for the entire duration of the story
I havent watched nor read it but according to the 1st chapter, arent the goblins inherently evil mindless beasts like the demons in doom? So technically isnt it not a genocide to slaughter them? Because in this case they are a fantasy enemy which represents the idea of evil right?
Did you know that they were written to be inherently evil to justify a heroic genocide? Really makes you wonder why the author wanted to justify such a thing
They are, not that that is going to stop the same usual nerds from getting big mad about it being fascist slop or whatever
I want to read some Dungeons and Dragons shit where the characters make use of real world physics intersecting with in universe magic to Do Cool Shit. Goblin Slayer has that, and does a good fucking job of it. Connecting a teleportation scroll to the bottom of the ocean to use the water pressure like a laser? Cool. Using flour as a fuel air bomb? Hahaha cool. Sorry certain people are too fucking obsessed with their hatred of media and media tropes to appreciate it because they think the only Good Media would have the main characters idk building communism with the goblins
I almost want to write some parody shit where I basically take one of the posts criticizing "the settler colonialism of [whatever isekai Nerds Mad About]" and transpose everything to being about, idk, Ghostbusters. Are the ghost busters not a proto fascist escapist stand in for the viewer? Are the faceless, 'evil' ghosts not merely stand ins for the colonized indigenous, encouraging the viewer to Do a Genocide? Idk i think it's a good bit. You can't enjoy Ghostbusters anymore, sorry sweaty
Waitwaitwait hold on a second.
So, first of all- you're free to consume problematic media. Reading Mein Kampf or The Turner Diaries doesn't automatically turn you into a Nazi, otherwise we'd have a lot of right wing political graduate students. The only danger these books pose are to those who uncritically accept the author's ideas, and I'm sure there'll be no problems on that front given the general media literacy of people in the anglosphere. If you think there's cool stuff in the show by all means enjoy it.
But Goblin Slayer was written for someone, by someone, to communicate something.
Why are the goblins cunning enough to set traps and ambush people, but too stupid to engage in diplomacy or have their own culture? Hmmmmm, I dunno, my dude Umberto Eco has something to say about that. “[…] the followers must be convinced that they can overwhelm the enemies. Thus, by a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.” I dunno, seems pretty sus to me...
Why does it open with graphic rape? Oh haha those whacky Japanese and their strange cultural perversions, that's it, it's totally not that fear of sexual assault has a long history of being used to justify racism. It's not as if historically minorities have been lynched on trumped up charges of sexual assault. It must be because the goblins are ontologically evil, the author's not trying to draw some equivalence or something.
If the goblins pose that much of a danger to people, why do the powers that be leave them alone? Why isn't there an organized response by official to deal with them? Why do the powers that be actively suppress information about goblins? Can't possibly be anything to do with conspiracy theories about how the the media in the real world suppresses the real crime statistics that show minorities in a bad light, right? Can't possibly be so that the big, strong MC has to take things into his own hands, go all 'lone wolf' and enact all that cool improvised violence, right? Gotta be a real big damn hero. Oh here comes Eco again: “in Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”
The answer to the above questions, of course, is because the author wrote it like that. So the next thing we need to ask is why. Who could this story possibly be for? I hope I gave sufficient inferences through the sarcasm.
When people criticize art, they aren't attacking you as a person, they're attacking the ideas presented in the texts. I'm not trying to wokescold people into enjoying only Good Communist Approved Media. Me, personally, I call shit like Goblin Slayer out because I'm the fucking minority in question who racists will call a goblin and say deserves to be genocided, "just like in my le ebin animays". Because the spread of and acceptance of these ideas in the wider culture without pushback is just one more drop in the bucket towards fascism, so I'll point out all the ways in which a show like Goblin Slayer promotes far-right ideas and talking points in the vain, pointless hope that people who watched the show and didn't realize it actually think about what the show is trying to say, and maybe they realize how those messages can be dangerous because too many people are uncritical of the media they consume.
Ask yourself: why do racists 4chan shitheads stan this show so hard?
P.S. Ghostbusters? Really? The movie about how Reagan era deregulation is good actually, where the villain is the EPA and attempting to enforce environmental regulations is what causes the most problems?
great post
i'm regularly shocked at the supposed unwillingness of self-described leftists to read. your comment is a 2-3 minute read at average reading speed.
I admire Goblin Slayer on how militant he is even after success in vanquishing his enemies, he never underestimates his opponents.
(w/ Japanese entertainment as context) I also appreciate many right-wing shows(mostly in form). My fave band even said some anticommunist talking points out of context, didn't even expect it. My appreciation mostly ends at form though. They're just fun to watch/fun to listen to.
Critiquing them is even another form of enjoyment! And it's fun to do. Try watching and critiquing Shin Godzilla, for example. Not all entertainment has to affirm your politics for it to be fun(This is a problem especially in watching art by problematic artists. Learn to separate them already).
Watching and dissecting their themes can be even used as a tool to sharpen your own political alignment.
I love Shin Godzilla! One of Anno's best, most politically charged works. His take on US Imperialism was really interesting.
Not all entertainment has to affirm your politics for it to be fun
Of course. What I'm taking issue with the person I'm replying to is their insistence that there aren't any politics present in the text we were discussing.
Edit: Also, it gets a bit harder to Death of the Author when you're the one on the receiving end of the author's political violence. Still possible, but still.
I'm just trying to have a discussion with you because your points are interesting, didn't even notice the ongoing replies.
For me, Shin Godzilla distills Japan's right wing political bent( on reaffirming japanese nationalism). The reccuring anti-American esp. in connection to anti-nuclear sentiment really seals the deal. It's a complex work.
Regarding on the Death of the Author: A fascist statement is still a fascist statement whether attributed or not. If a song sounds misogynist, it's probably misogynist. I don't derive enjoyment from misogyny. I take along the art based on my own valuations and interpretations.
Shit on the author as much as we can. They're the least of our consideration. In the turn of the capitalist condition, we can always repurpose and decontextualize their work. We should and we must separate the author and their work. We are at least entitled to that. Art are mere commodities and should be treated as such.
Shin Godzilla
Really? For me the film's insistence that small technocratic expert committees that eschewed traditional ways of doing things were the only way to tackle crises (Godzilla is basically Fukushima in the movie), along with the tacit acknowledgement that international cooperation was necessary (even in the face of American imperialism) made the film seem very liberal, although I do see your point about edit: an overall Japanese nationalistic tone (didn't finish my sentence haha)
Art are mere commodities and should be treated as such.
I agree with everything else you said, except this. Yes, right now under capitalism the majority of art is mere commodity, but hopefully (eventually) it'll return to what it should be- communication.
Re: Shin Godzilla It's interesting to note that the UN/USA will have tried help eliminate Godzilla via nuclear launch lol
Maybe the term right-wing is too old-fashioned.
The theme I saw in that film is that the faithful population must be taken care of in the danger of compromise of another nation’s agenda(America). It reaffirms the trust of the people to the government, and is welcoming to anyone who is willing to help their cause. International cooperation should not be conflated with internationalism, and is not rejected by right wing liberalism(Just look the UN and NATO). Liberalism is right-wing. To be Anti-American should also not be conflated with anti-imperialism, as interivalries happen with competing states(Russia and USA, USA and Japan).
The film was delivered void of any annoying political sentiments.
Incidentally, revered Japanese creatives have a far right-wing throughline, like Mishima, Abe and Shuuzo. But it's more likely that we can speculate that Anno is a liberal, although his military fascination disturbs me at times.
He directed my favorite Ghibli film, and favorite short about trains so there's that.
It's not demeaning to talk about art as commodity. Just more practical for me to discuss films and art as such in a capitalist system in order to stop revolving the art around the artist as an auteur or singular idealogue.
Commodities are talked about as:
A product of labor and its usefulness. Since labor is already alienated under capitalism, we define art based on its usefulness. I place its spectacularity as its social use. In most cases, if the art doesn't please one's senses first, it's useless for me. Narratives and message come after and should correspond with the spectacular qualities.
Ah, fair enough. I see where you're coming from- strictly in a Marxist sense.
I spend my time to engage in good faith and this is all you got? tl;dr?
Fuck it, here's the tl;dr: why do racists 4chan shitheads stan this show so hard?
Fuck it, here’s the tl;dr: why do racists 4chan shitheads stan this show so hard?
Idk dawg I literally don't care what 4chan nerds like, it does not matter to me. Makes me think of the Republican/Democrat duopoly and how all Americans view everything in that context. Ahhh the fascists like it, must be fascist!
Ahhh the fascists like it, must be fascist!
In your opinion, why do you think Hexbear doesn't stan this show? Partisanship? Virtue signaling?
I think there are like 5 nerds here who think too hard about shit like the big wall of blah blah media literacy i just got from someone else. Someone wanting to write some shit about killing goblins and isn't really thinking too hard about it, just like the people consuming that content, that's just beyond the realm of probability and it must be this fascist dogwhistle propaganda vehicle, lol.
I'm getting these walls of text about how goblins are real world minorities and goblin slayer is the KKK or whatever like my brother in christ it is a goblin it is a fantasy creature it's not like they're fucking coded like the goblins in Harry Potter, like that's actual use of goblins as racial allegory
Don't feel like you gotta write more words at me it's pretty pointless isn't it
Ok, so you think a minority of posters on Hexbear are over-analyzing the show and are seeing Nazi ghosts where there are none. Ok.
it’s not like they’re fucking coded like the goblins in Harry Potter, like that’s actual use of goblins as racial allegory
Why do you think the goblins in Goblin Slayer aren't coded like the goblins in Harry Potter?
Why do you think the goblins in Goblin Slayer aren’t coded like the goblins in Harry Potter?
Perhaps because they are fantasy monster and in the case of goblin slayer not meant to be a racial stand in for a real life minority but instead are, you know, a fantasy monster
Why are the goblins in Goblin Slayer fantasy monsters, but not the ones in Harry Potter? After all, aren't they both goblins?
Perhaps because they are
fantasy monster andin the case of goblin slayer not meant to be a racial stand in for a real life minoritybut instead are, you know, a fantasy monsterYou can point to harry Potter goblins and say that they are clearly an anti semitic caricature
What are goblin slayer goblins meant to represent? Is there some specific ethnicity there? Ah, curious.
"They're an Other!" okay so basically you don't want any humanoid monsters involved because any Other is automatically some sanction of real world racism
Zzzzzzzzzzzz
This is a waste of both our time
What I'm asking is why are you so sure that the goblins in goblin slayer aren't meant to be a stand in for a real life minority? Why do you identify the ones in Harry Potter immediately as an anti-semitic caricature? What is the difference?
I don't feel like I'm wasting my time.
Why do you identify the ones in Harry Potter immediately as an anti-semitic caricature?
Because being hooked nosed gold loving bankers who are literally designed to look like that hand wringing merchant guy that gets play on 4chan is like, The Anti Semitic Trope? What are "green little rapists who live in caves" supposed to be? Like what the fuck lol. Vague shit about green skinned primitives is not on the same level as what Harry Potter did, it's wild to even think a person exists that would think so
it’s wild to even think a person exists that would think so
"For years, Tolkien scholars have waged a fight on two fronts: against an academic establishment that for the most part refused to take the author's work seriously, and against white supremacists who have tried to claim the professor as one of their own." ― David Ibata, Chicago TribuneAre you calling yourself a white supremacist tho because you're a person who thinks "vague shit about green skinned primitives is on the level with what harry Potter did" as well
"No U" is some weak ass shit. Get the fuck outta here with that, right wingers pull that shit all the time to dismiss legitimate criticism, especially of race. You gonna tell me BLM are the real racists next?
I'm not calling the show racist, I'm simply saying the racists believe it is racist.
no like literally with how that was framed and by that logic you would be including yourself up in there. I said it is wild to think that such a person exists, you said they do, they're white supremacists. You are the one existing in part of a venn diagram whose beliefs overlap with theirs, by that set of statements. That's not "no you," dawg.
You gonna tell me BLM are the real racists next?
🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 yes sweaty and antifa are the real fascists 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄
I’m not calling the show racist, I’m simply saying the racists believe it is racist.
so fucking confusing after this long ass argument about the inherent racism of the show, a thing which you believe, but maybe I got you confused for the other guy
What you're doing now is saying that Antifa are the real Nazis for pointing out what dogwhistles the Nazi's use. Just because you didn't know about them doesn't mean they don't exist, and when other leftists tell you they do you're putting your hands in your ears and screaming "LAHLAHLAH" like a fucking child just because you don't want to fucking think about what you're watching.
If you actually think I'm jumping at shadows, engage with my fucking arguments and tell me how they're not far-right dogwhistles rather than pull "Oh you the real racist for pointing out racism" bullshit.
I’m telling you that real life crackers post memes about Goblin Slayer because the racialized Other in the show is just vague enough that people like you won’t see the dog whistles while they go on about how goblins are responsible for 60% of the crime while being only 14% of the population, and should be genocided JUST like in the show.
i'm confused they show trolls depicted as "feminists" does that mean trolls are inherently racist or inherently misogynistic? I just want to get things straight while we're letting fascists dictate terms of language, which is a good thing to do
If you actually think I’m jumping at shadows, engage with my fucking arguments and tell me how they’re not far-right dogwhistles rather than pull “Oh you the real racist for pointing out racism” bullshit.
i did this when I called you and the other guy nerds who over think shit and told you that arguing with me would be wasting your time
is saying that Antifa are the real Nazi
when I said that it was what is called a Joke I thought calling you sweaty would make that clear
I just want to get things straight while we’re letting fascists dictate terms of language, which is a good thing to do
You want to "reclaim" the rape and genocide Other show? Go right the fuck ahead. Why though?
i did this when I called you and the other guy nerds who over think shit and told you that arguing with me would be wasting your time
You didn't do shit. You just don't want to entertain the possibility that you're in the wrong because it'll hurt your precious self-image as a leftist, so you're dismissing all criticism as "overthinking" so that you don't have to put in any effort into defending your position, and you're hiding behind "it's a waste of time" in the hope I back off, rather than do the slightest bit of self-reflection and asking yourself if maybe you might have missed some things because you're only human.
You want to “reclaim” the rape and genocide Other show? Go right the fuck ahead. Why though?
I want to not base my thoughts and opinions on "what the fascists like" unlike you, thanks
You didn’t do shit. You just don’t want to entertain the possibility that you’re in the wrong because it’ll hurt your precious self-image as a leftist, so you’re dismissing all criticism as “overthinking” so that you don’t have to put in any effort into defending your position, and you’re hiding behind “it’s a waste of time” in the hope I back off, rather than do the slightest bit of self-reflection and asking yourself if maybe you might have missed some things because you’re only human.
i think you're jumping at nazi shadows and wasting your time and mine, thanks
You want to be a free-thinker so much you're mindlessly stanning rape and genocide. How's that working out for you? Won anyone over to your position yet?
Media about extermination of subhumans is enjoyed by nazis, news at 11
4chan likes my little pony, therefore I posit that Friendship is not Magic, but rather it is fascist
Goblin Slayer has that, and does a good fucking job of it.
I've read a bit of the manga and, uh, no it does not
More importantly, you can have you creative violence without a highly racialized narrative of heroic genocide and sexualized rape. There is no need to be so defensive about the story because you think the mechanics of their gas chambers are creative.
I love how hexbear is mad about genocide of rapists. What if they were a species of slave owners :thinkin-lenin:
Is this really a difficult puzzle for you? Ask anyone if the infants on a plantation should be killed and they would probably say no. Goblin Slayer says yes.
Making a race ontologically evil and also coded as "savages" in order to justify genocide is fucked up. You are still reasoning on the level of a character in the setting when the problem is on the level of the author making the rules of the world.
the author making the rules of the world
The author made this rule imo literally to head off nerds going "but wait what about all the little gobbos," that's the point of it. Y'all see the rape scene as some author fetish insert, I saw it as the author going "okay how do I establish that they are evil beyond reconciliation so that nerds don't start to ask if the REAL way to slay goblins is FRIENDSHIP"
Im sorry you wish the manga were called Goblin Befriender
Are you the person I talked about this last time with? God fucking damn it
It's like the most standard thing in smutty reactionary writing to have the big, dark skinned savages molest the fair-skinned lady in a way that is both highly sexualized and functions as a causus belli for the protagonists. Have you seen any of SAO's arcs besides the first one and the Asuna-led one? All the others use this trope at some point as foreplay to their revenge porn.
You are displaying a level of media literacy that would have you defending Birth of a Nation if not for social stigma. "Obviously the black people in this setting are ontologically savage to keep you nerds from worrying about the possibility that there are Good Ones! In this universe, the Klan is heroic, so there's nothing wrong with cheering them on!"
There is no questioning of why this is the story the author wants to tell. Why is it along racial lines? Why is it a story of genocide instead of some revenge porn against a specific gang, like happens in Taken? Why do we have our hero be identified primarily as an exterminator of life-unworthy-of-life and not as a protector of the innocent, despite that being the nominal justification of the story? Why is the evil race coded as savage, with dark skin, primitive tools, and ragged clothes? What relationship does a work like this have with the real world? Having people be wronged by goblins and then monomaniacly fixated on ethnic cleansing because they are all bad sure reminds me of something I've heard of before.
Are you the person I talked about this last time with? God fucking damn it
If it bothers you you could not
my brother in christ it is a goblin it is a fantasy creature
Why is it along racial lines
Because it is a dnd setting and it's easy to write it that way
Again i'm sorry it's not goblin befriender. That'd be a good show too but ya know, this ain't it
my brother in christ it is a goblin it is a fantasy creature
Yes, a fantasy race one might even say. Tell me, was Birth of a Nation's biggest problem that it didn't make the black people have little cloven hooves and call them satyrs? Would it be above criticism if it merely depicted the revival of the Klan as a way to terrorize and slaughter these dark-skinned, lustful, savage satyrs with no relation to black people?
Because it is a dnd setting and it’s easy to write it that way
I promise you that it's just as easy to write the enemy as being bandits. Hell, even writing them as slimes (an even-more-common bottom-level enemy, #1 along with rats) would be better, since those aren't remotely humanoid but can have basically whatever properties the author wants because they are so literally amorphous.
I promise you that it’s just as easy to write the enemy as being bandits.
No because then you have the nerds going on about "what about their families" and shit. Revenge porn about bandits is imo worse than making it about a "race" shown to be objectively evil in universe but I guess then basically you just have fantasy batman idk
Anyway I am annoyed with nerds taking race essentialism from dnd and mapping it to the real world like tolkien's treatment of orcs is another Armenian genocide. "This goblin is a stand in for ME" :jesse-wtf:
Focus on the slime counterproposition then, instead of cherrypicking the weaker example like it's all I said
That said, it's hilarious how you readily concede that Rowling's goblins are fucked up tropes but here when you see goblins that have a single-minded motivation to rape and murder, live in Caves with crude tools and loincloths, have dark skin, low intelligence, and no empathy for the light skinned population that they terrorize, you go "Tropes? Tropes? Nononono, no way"
Even when you get someone directly saying "these are tropes of people from my race" you dismiss that person as a "nerd" like that just solves the issue.
“these are tropes of people from my race”
What race?? What fucking real world race are any of those traits associated with? My god. They're... green! Rowling's goblins are literally a list of Jewish stereotypes. You're like... "Tolkien's gollum is racist caricature, he lives in a cave like a primitive and those are racial tropes" like :jesse-wtf:
Focus on the slime counterproposition then, instead of cherrypicking the weaker example like it’s all I said
I could and argue about how it's weak as shit when the only difference is one is humanoid and the other can be humanoid. A slime can be portrayed as just as sapient, and Im sure there'd be nerds arguing with me then about how they're a stand in for their ethnicity or something. Slime genocide is still genocide after all
What race?? What fucking real world race are any of those traits associated with?
Several! It's literally the most common racial caricature of aboriginal people and Africans, hence my mentioning Birth of a Nation.
"Tolkien’s gollum is racist caricature, he lives in a cave like a primitive and those are racial tropes” like
Gollum is a) an individual, b) a creature transformed into a lower state by the ring, c) a member of a race that we see many examples of and d) doesn't really conform to a racial stereotype anyway
The confluence of tropes I mentioned is, again, specifically the "savage" caricature whites used against Native Americans, Africans, and Australian aborigines, which involves many specific features other than living in Caves, features I listed and you feign ignorance of.
Slimes could be used in a racist way, but it would be exceedingly easy not to because they are capable of things that primate-likes aren't, such as mitosis or a more credible way of being both mindless and complex through hive or colonial functioning since they literally don't have brains. They can exist in the wild without being cavemen because they can form their bodies into tools, they can introduce many features that flat don't apply to people such as seeping through the cracks of stone fortification, being acidic, etc
This really isn't that hard if you try to think about it instead of shouting "nerd" over and over like it's a chant to keep evil spirits at bay.
Several! It’s literally the most common racial caricature of aboriginal people and Africans, hence my mentioning Birth of a Nation.
the concept of a primitive society living in caves in a fantasy world is racist because if you squint you can make it look like nonsensical, false ideas about a disparate group of unconnected ethnicities
This is just like if you asked 4chan to design a character named "the evil jew" and made your goblins look like that
Literally mad that they use stone tools just lmao my god
[a concept] is racist because if you squint you can make it look like nonsensical, false ideas about a disparate group of unconnected ethnicities
In a small way we're making progress because the rhetorical knots you are tying yourself in are increasingly poor.
nonsensical, false ideas
Standard of a racial caricature, or do you think Jews are really greedy?
about a disparate group of unconnected ethnicities
They are not especially close genealogically, but they are socially quite connected as colonized first peoples
Taking these things in mind, you question is if the depiction of goblins:
is racist because if you squint you can make it look like [the racial caricatures] about [colonized first peoples]
And suddenly the question is just the squinting part, i.e. "How similar is this to those caricatures?" which is what I've been trying to discuss, though you keep cherry picking individual elements when my argument is that it, like most caricatures, is a confluence of traits. It's like if the defense in a stabbing case said "Yes, my client owns a knife, but so do many people. Are you going to convict him just for that?" "Yes, my client was at the park at the time of the attack. What? Is it illegal to visit the park? lmao" "Yes, my client was seen disposing of what may have been a pair of gloves. What? Do you propose that just taking out the trash makes them a killer? Is that really all you have?"
Like, it's inductive reasoning, not deductive reasoning. I am not proposing these elements in isolation.
You can look at Dr. Stone and see primitive societies that aren't racial stereotypes, even though one of them is indeed quite violent. That's not what I'm saying and I think you know that's not what I'm saying, which makes me wonder why you even bother. Are you that upset by criticism of this obviously sexist, racist shit that you think you can just string me along until I get bored of it and then you can enjoy your wholesome rape softporn and genocide series in peace? I'm going to keep re-explaining myself every time you mischaracterize me, so you're going to need to develop a new coping strategy or just learn to wank while keeping your mouth shut. Do what you fucking want, but don't piss on my head and tell me it's raining.
In a small way we’re making progress because the rhetorical knots you are tying yourself in are increasingly poor.
talking like this about anime shit is why I say "nerds" you're a nerd I'm a nerd it's okay to admit it's nerd shit when you debate bro about fantasy race politics in anime for like 4 hours
Standard of a racial caricature, or do you think Jews are really greedy?
a well known racist trope versus literally the vaguest shit you can imagine "primitive humanoids living in caves" but ok.
They are not especially close genealogically, but they are socially quite connected as colonized first peoples
UM, okay. aboriginal society and african society are close enough that you can caricaturize them as "green stone tool people in caves" :bruh-moment: i've heard all kinds of racist cracker shit but that's new to me
And suddenly the question is just the squinting part,
my question is why you identify societies across the world that have literally nothing to do with each other (except "being colonized" I guess?) as being close enough that they can be portrayed as green cave living rapists and that these goblins are an intentional mockery of these ethnicities and societies, because that is wild
You can look at Dr. Stone
i'm surprised you can look at doctor stone with all its underaged panty shots and sexualization, more problematic than "the existence of goblins" imo
And now you've resorted 100% to miserable deflection, calling me racist for talking about racial caricatures and so on. This is such a pathetic behavior, especially if you were the person who was caping for this shit last time.
i like how this started from iirc me saying "I like the intersection of real world physics with magic bullshit" and you saying it doesn't even do that well, you could have talked about better anime that do that instead
calling me racist for talking about racial caricatures
the negation of disparate peoples into one that you are weirdly identifying with "green cave dwelling primitive rapists" while insisting that depiction is JUST as racist as harry potter goblins is kinda racist imo, especially the latter bit because harry potter goblins are literally a 1:1 recreation of racist tropes no stretch needed and saying goblin slayer is "just as bad" imo diminishes that anti semitism
the negation of disparate peoples into one that you are weirdly identifying with “green cave dwelling primitive rapists” while insisting that depiction is JUST as racist as harry potter goblins is kinda racist imo, especially the latter bit because harry potter goblins are literally a 1:1 recreation of racist tropes no stretch needed and saying goblin slayer is “just as bad” imo diminishes that anti semitism
First of all, fuck off. Secondly, you are unsurprisingly wildly ignorant about what a racial caricature is if you think this is a tenable line of logic. Racial caricatures are things constructed by racists, not properties of the groups they purport to represent. The three groups I mentioned were all victims of British colonization, portrayed by those British settlers in this way (and, importantly, this was all transmitted back to Britain itself, see e.g. the racism of Darwin), and have very similar stereotypes that survive into the modern day because of that very legacy. Dividing the world into "us," "maybe some other Euros," and "the savages" was a huge part of Britain's characterization of the world!
You would struggle to make the GS Goblins more on the nose in terms of their behavior than what we see already. Basically the only way it could be done is by having goblin slaves so you could demonstrate them being lazy in chains and unable to cope with freedom.
I looked it up because I forgot if I was conflating it with the Trolls from Berserk and, in GS, it turns out:
Goblins are an all-male species, but possess the ability to breed with any race with the pregnancy always resulting in goblin children.
We've even got some fucking miscegenation shit with the corrupting influence of savage blood overriding the heredity of the fairer race!
Wild how this species exists just to rape and murder (and, lacking any females and any ability to relate to other species, can only reproduce by rape) so that the more technologically advanced, light-skinned, Euro-coded humans can be completely justified in eradicating them. Couldn't we have, like, just the murder and not the eroticized rape? Nope! Maybe more representation on the human side to -- no, nope, I'm being told that the curtains are blue.
First of all, fuck off
you first
portrayed by those British settlers in this way (
not even in the wildest racism have I ever seen the peoples of 3 different continents uniformly portrayed as "green skinned goblins living in caves who rape people" but ok chief
I looked it up because I forgot if I was conflating it with the Trolls from Berserk and, in GS, it turns out:
yeah it's the same in berserk, which is honestly even worse much more frequently but strangely tolerated by the ol hexbear anime experts (tm) huh
Wild how this species exists just to rape and murder (and, lacking any females and any ability to relate to other species, can only reproduce by rape) so that the more technologically advanced, light-skinned, Euro-coded humans can be completely justified in eradicating them.
wild how goblin slayer is a series about slaying goblins and uses some kind of conceit to make it okay
y'all act like they're drawn like the fucking cockroaches in terraformars like your reaction is wild
yeah it’s the same in berserk, which is honestly even worse much more frequently but strangely tolerated by the ol hexbear anime experts ™ huh
Oh no, it must be so hard when people are intolerant of uwu smol bean anime fans like you because they want to offer criticism of an anime. I'd offer you a hug if you were here, maybe some warm milk and a blanket. I can't imagine what it must be like to be the most downtrodden minority, the anime fan, when those uppity ethnic people tell you such violent, hateful things like "Hey, this anime's monsters are similar to how my people have been depicted and I don't think that should be taken so lightly".
I welcome you to criticize Berserk, have at it! That's not my fucking point (or CriticalOtaku's) because I'm not telling you what to like or not like (nor were they). You're the one obsessed with moralizing, I just think we should call a spade a spade instead of pretending it's something else, while you sit here fucking gaslighting people so that you don't feel like anyone gives you funny looks for liking your eroticized rape with fake physics.
Oh, I'm sorry, I forgot that you can't read more than three sentences at a time unless it's explaining why the repeated use of rape in a story is actually progressive and necessary.
i like how this started from iirc me saying “I like the intersection of real world physics with magic bullshit” and you saying it doesn’t even do that well, you could have talked about better anime that do that instead
I like how that bit about physics leads you to spend hours screaming that the curtains are blue and calling people who disagree with you racist. Sorry, that's not true, I don't like that.
I've been told .hack does that stuff well. Ironically, Dr. Stone sometimes also does. Hunter x Hunter has its moments.
Baki (and martial arts manga in general) do what I would argue is a more self-aware version of this by taking a "story" about how something in physics works and then having someone "master" using the interaction in order to weaponize it. Most times when physics is used in an action manga, especially ones with flimsy writing like Goblin Slayer, are based on using a very selective understanding of whatever the "physics" is that it evokes to look clever when it may as well just be making something up.
the curtains are blue
weird obsession with curtains ngl
Wow, so I do talk about the subject you request and you ignore it. Who could have guessed you were just concern trolling :blob-no-thoughts:
I said you could have talked about it like hours ago when I would have given a shit instead of after I felt annoyed by this all day
You poor thing, maybe if you just dropped the subject instead of arguing in obvious bad faith for hours this could have been avoided! No, it must be the fault of those nerds
You're just going to keep caping for softporn rape the next time too, aren't you?
If it's so hard, you could keep your fucking mouth shut next time instead of stringing people along for hours with bullshit you don't mean
I'm not the one who spent like an hour calling people racist because they objected to rape porn, maybe forward your complaints to that fellow
the author's being so lazy about what theyre doing with metaphors so it might look kinda racist but its REALLY NOT GUYS!!! and da cool fucken GENOCIDE is done with so much flair :3
I think the eroticized scenes of rape that are just censored versions of established eroguro rape pornographic tropes are more about titillating the audience and at the same time tapping into fears of the racialized 'other' defiling and stealing away 'our women'
than they are for establishing a moral justification for murdering the shit out of goblins, seeing as rpg players do that all the time without ever seeing goblins so much as burn down a house.
This
tapping into fears of the racialized ‘other’ defiling and stealing away ‘our women’
is this
establishing a moral justification
rpg players
Im glad you brought this up because i find it ironic how frequently I see the VIDEO GAME ISEKAI criticized here. This is not a game world and a lot of the graphic violence is meant to underscore that. That is why it's about goblins, since they are usually an "easy" enemy in a videogame, but here in a world without videogame mechanics they are a threat to everyone no matter how high "level"
Ah but nah I guess the author just likes a rapin' and a murderin' and makin people fascist
I think people see what they want to
Uh, yeah, I am indeed saying that the author included the graphic eroticized rape because the author enjoys having the female characters be continuously threatened with eroticized gang rape.
Oh, in universe it is correct to kill the goblins. They are fundamentally evil and incapable of change. The problem is that the author made a story where genocide is the right option.
Because in this case they are a fantasy enemy which represents the idea of evil right?
Triumph of the Will is a must watch, and Leni is an auteur unironically.
In the same way the USSR film scene utilized The Birth of A Nation as cinematography study we must do the same. The author is dead.
You wan't catch me watching any Griffith doe(obsolete) or reading Rand(awful clunky writer). Both are just not entertaining.
Anyway for anyone who was intrigued by Goblin Slayer and wants something with that vibe but without all of the problematic shit, Dungeon Meshi is really great as long as you're not vegan.
finally something we can all agree on except for those who are vegan
I tried to think of a second rec that's also vegan friendly and came up short. Could be an interesting story - isekai'd into a world where you're expected to hunt monsters, but you reject the premise and become a high fantasy Steve Irwin protecting endangered magical creatures instead.
All I got from this 100+ comment post is that stanning Goblin Slayer should be a bannable offense. The first episode was literally just your typical fascist anxiety of [racial slurs] r-wording virginal (white) women. The entire series is just your typical muh-will-to-power fascist fantasy about genociding an untermensch subhuman race in order to secure a future without the untermensch subhuman race to pollute muh women and children. And it was already openly fascist in the first episode, so you can't even use the excuse of "oh I didn't know it was fascist."
Like come on now lmao
mf forgot the first rule of media analysis - everything is legitimately fucken political
