You've already gone to "entertainment has no effect on the people that consume it" unprovable negatives in your discourse.
No one is immune to propaganda, and people don't come up with ideas entirely whole cloth in a vacuum.
I’m sorry.
You're not.
This is pure clickbait
I'm not going to take away your often-misunderstood Verhoeven satire movie. Pretending that other people didn't get bad ideas from it is wishful thinking.
I am certain that entertainment "does" have an impact on the people who consume it. However, the degree to which it impacts people varies and is probably pretty hard to gauge in most cases. I heavily doubt Starship Troopers turns people into Fascists by the droves but it might further enhance reactionary sentiments in people that already harbour them or that are responsive towards them. (Which I assume depends heavily on the individual and many other factors). What im saying is that while you have a point to some degree (I think) you basically have to look at every single case and I doubt that in "most" cases a single piece of propaganda (especially one of the quality of Starship Troopers) is the deciding factor that makes someone join the US Marine.
Like lets turn this around ...the reason I want to balkanize and demilitarize the USA is NOT "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" even if it might have nudged me towards thinking more critical of republicans. It was merely one step on a long road towards radicalization from a somewhat "centrist" person and I think its a process (most of the time)
Im sure there are instances in which one single piece of propaganda captures someones heart but I dont think they are "that" common.
The problem isn't really the individual piece of propaganda, but rather the fact that the entire culture is steeped in it.
Like lets be real Starship Troopers "might" influence some nerds but stuff like Fox News is a much bigger problem and rots the minds of entire generations on a nationwide scale.
I heavily doubt Starship Troopers turns people into Fascists by the droves but it might further enhance reactionary sentiments in people that already harbour them or that are responsive towards them.
This is actually where I stand. I don't say that a gross misunderstanding of the satire made them fascists but it gave shape and form and quotable slogans to the fascism that those chuds then internalized. And yes, some boot chuds do cite the movie as inspiration for enlisting, contrary to the dogmatic "that never happens" claim made elsewhere in this thread. I had an older cousin quit nursing school to jump at the chance to kill "bugs" (you can guess who the "bugs" were in the early 2000s) not long after he got introduced to that movie, for example. Maybe he would have done that anyway because something something material conditions, but considering his parents were well off and he wasn't in any particular precarity, it seemed weird to trade in what school he had for a small jump in starting pay grade, effectively throwing the rest of it away.
I'm wasn't making the argument you seem to be claiming I was making; I was mostly opposed to the dogmatic position that there's no measurable influence on people and that only bank statements and maybe choice of breakfast options factored into people's actives, behaviors, and choices.
Like lets be real Starship Troopers “might” influence some nerds but stuff like Fox News is a much bigger problem and rots the minds of entire generations on a nationwide scale.
I actually agree with you there too, and it's also a blurry area on purpose because of the "this is entertainment not news wink wink" legal defense which coincidentially ties into the "entertainment has no effect on people" dogma that exists outside of this site too. MAGA chuds in my own family claim that they "know" Fox News is bullshitting them if I press them but they still believe the bullshit when it suits them. :brainworms:
I think it is a really interesting topic, and I don't consider myself above or free from the influence of propaganda. However, you would have to get people on board with the idea that everything is propaganda. While it is true that liberals may agree that "Mein Kampf" is propaganda, they perceive the New York Times or the BBC as unbiased, factual sources that serve the common good. Which sure it might be better than Fox News but come on.
you would have to get people on board with the idea that everything is propaganda
In a way that is actually true. Even the pretense of "this is objective news presented objectively" is a propaganda statement.
Arrogant statements that no one could be fooled by something or have it influence their behavior are a personal internalized triumph of "I got mine" Burgerland exceptionalist propaganda which influences the individual to dismiss the possibility or risk of other people being influenced by propaganda as impossible, beneath their notice, or even just desserts for the unworthy.
Propaganda doesn't have to be false (often the most effective propaganda is a deliberately presented truth) or even have to be bad. What is AgitProp but propaganda, after all?
You've already gone to "entertainment has no effect on the people that consume it" unprovable negatives in your discourse.
No one is immune to propaganda, and people don't come up with ideas entirely whole cloth in a vacuum.
You're not.
I'm not going to take away your often-misunderstood Verhoeven satire movie. Pretending that other people didn't get bad ideas from it is wishful thinking.
I am certain that entertainment "does" have an impact on the people who consume it. However, the degree to which it impacts people varies and is probably pretty hard to gauge in most cases. I heavily doubt Starship Troopers turns people into Fascists by the droves but it might further enhance reactionary sentiments in people that already harbour them or that are responsive towards them. (Which I assume depends heavily on the individual and many other factors). What im saying is that while you have a point to some degree (I think) you basically have to look at every single case and I doubt that in "most" cases a single piece of propaganda (especially one of the quality of Starship Troopers) is the deciding factor that makes someone join the US Marine.
Like lets turn this around ...the reason I want to balkanize and demilitarize the USA is NOT "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" even if it might have nudged me towards thinking more critical of republicans. It was merely one step on a long road towards radicalization from a somewhat "centrist" person and I think its a process (most of the time)
Im sure there are instances in which one single piece of propaganda captures someones heart but I dont think they are "that" common. The problem isn't really the individual piece of propaganda, but rather the fact that the entire culture is steeped in it.
Like lets be real Starship Troopers "might" influence some nerds but stuff like Fox News is a much bigger problem and rots the minds of entire generations on a nationwide scale.
This is actually where I stand. I don't say that a gross misunderstanding of the satire made them fascists but it gave shape and form and quotable slogans to the fascism that those chuds then internalized. And yes, some boot chuds do cite the movie as inspiration for enlisting, contrary to the dogmatic "that never happens" claim made elsewhere in this thread. I had an older cousin quit nursing school to jump at the chance to kill "bugs" (you can guess who the "bugs" were in the early 2000s) not long after he got introduced to that movie, for example. Maybe he would have done that anyway because something something material conditions, but considering his parents were well off and he wasn't in any particular precarity, it seemed weird to trade in what school he had for a small jump in starting pay grade, effectively throwing the rest of it away.
I'm wasn't making the argument you seem to be claiming I was making; I was mostly opposed to the dogmatic position that there's no measurable influence on people and that only bank statements and maybe choice of breakfast options factored into people's actives, behaviors, and choices.
I actually agree with you there too, and it's also a blurry area on purpose because of the "this is entertainment not news wink wink" legal defense which coincidentially ties into the "entertainment has no effect on people" dogma that exists outside of this site too. MAGA chuds in my own family claim that they "know" Fox News is bullshitting them if I press them but they still believe the bullshit when it suits them. :brainworms:
I think it is a really interesting topic, and I don't consider myself above or free from the influence of propaganda. However, you would have to get people on board with the idea that everything is propaganda. While it is true that liberals may agree that "Mein Kampf" is propaganda, they perceive the New York Times or the BBC as unbiased, factual sources that serve the common good. Which sure it might be better than Fox News but come on.
In a way that is actually true. Even the pretense of "this is objective news presented objectively" is a propaganda statement.
Arrogant statements that no one could be fooled by something or have it influence their behavior are a personal internalized triumph of "I got mine" Burgerland exceptionalist propaganda which influences the individual to dismiss the possibility or risk of other people being influenced by propaganda as impossible, beneath their notice, or even just desserts for the unworthy.
Propaganda doesn't have to be false (often the most effective propaganda is a deliberately presented truth) or even have to be bad. What is AgitProp but propaganda, after all?