I lose my cool when people say the same old lib talking points about how awful mass shootings are and how we need "common sense" gun control. It's the combination of smarmy :maybe-later-honey: :maybe-later-kiddo: attitude and unwillingness to consider the implications of policy, or the history of similar disarming of leftists and vulnerable groups. So I get a little hot and I bully them. Then, they play the "actually I'm [member of vulnerable group] " or "my sibling died to gun violence" card. Great so now I'm an asshole.
Am I wrong to bully people for shallow thinking and smug attitudes. Do I stoop to their style of rhetoric playing up atrocities like the Shanghai Massacre of disarmed leftists by the KMT or how cops kill and abuse black people with impunity after disarming the Black Panthers with the Mulford Act? These fools think these cops will protect us? It's so frustrating.
idk maybe they're just radlibs in leftist spaces
Sure, but the fact is Gun violence is a huge problem people are anxious about daily. A majority of gun ownership and gun culture is white and reactionary. Most urban gun ownership is concealed handguns and not useful for revolutionary organizing. The Arsenal built up by reactionary forces and the state is insurmountable and any legal weapon purchased just further enriches the worst companies on planet earth. These are points I find pro gun leftist ignore, and just use an 19th century Marx quote to cover over the fact that the individualism inherent in American gun culture will only breed sporadic and aimless violence on mostly innocent people. There are lots of reasons why people don’t like violence and scoffing at their arguments will probably lead you down a dark path.
On the "points pro gun leftists ignore" tip,
What does this matter? Will not buying a gun (which you can do second hand) doom Glock to bankruptcy? This is a particularly non-materialist take.
I think the point has already been made by others in this post but gun ownership isn't only about revolutionary action. A pistol can prevent a chud from killing you whether you're in the context of revolution or walking home from work.
This is what handguns are meant to protect from.
I think the idea is that legal gun ownership in America might make you feel safer, but realistically if you pose a threat to the state, you are doomed with or without a weapon. The recent murder of Manuel “Tortuguita” Terán comes to mind.
I know Handguns are like 60% of murders and like all of gun related suicides. I don’t think there are statistics about handguns properly defending someone from getting shot at. So it’s debatable if they are really good at protection at all.
Also cops utilize the fear of anyone concealing a handgun as their right to shoot anyone, so many instances of state violence utilize gun ownership as their defense for the reason of doing so.
Yes, that's why this isn't about guns in the context of revolution. It's about self defense.
Seriously? Handguns are used in self defense, effectively, all the damn time in the US. There's zero doubt that a handgun can protect you from an aggressor with a gun.
No doubt about that, and leftists can't do anything to change it. This isn't a discussion about how to arrange a proper society, it's about the actual, on the ground material reality that people in America exist in. The state will justify violence no matter what.
Again, I can’t find any statistics on successfully prevented shootings by another person having a concealed handgun. There is no “Mexican Standoff” statistics. I can find statistics on concealed handguns being the murder weapon in over 60% of murders. So your feeling that it can protect you is all it is. At current moment, there is more evidence that concealed handguns do more harm than good in my eyes.
There's entire subreddits dedicated to surveillance videos of people defending themselves with handguns
a general disarmament of handguns (which anyone worth their salt on gun regulation should be advocating), a ban that won't just get them out of the hands of 'mentally ill' and the vulnerable but ALSO the reactionaries would be absolutely beneficial for contexts of sporadic violence. only an idiot would prefer a shootout with some rando trying to attack you when they could be limited to less lethal options
It feels like I'm losing my mind - is anybody on the left in charge of gun policy in America? None of us are going to be able to make policy changes in America any time soon. I don't "prefer" a shootout to a society without guns, but I do live in a society with guns.
liberals advocate for handgun bans all fucking time you don't get to plead 'pie-in-the-sky' on this one.
Have they succeeded? NYC's just got shot down by the SC. I sincerely don't understand this policy wonk shit, nobody on the left is ever going to have access to policy decisions.
?why are you arguing with us about this? you're a leftist your opinion on policy doesn't matter
lol
Do you live in the US? Just curious? I always hear white US liberals make this argument. They are terrified of random violence, but seem totally fine with targeted structural violence against other ethnicities, cultures, and class backgrounds.
For example, one of the side effects of the constitutional carry boom, similar to the decriminalization of marijuana, is the reduction of arrests and killings by police of African American men. Why? Because police use marijuana and weapons charges to arrest and select young black people for assault.
Whenever I ask, how will you prevent black , poorer, and indigenous people from being targeted by the police enforcing your weapons laws, there is no answer. They either don't care or willingly want poorer people, or non White's to be eliminated or have their rights stripped.
What are you talking about with “your weapon laws”?
I just think it’s reasonable for Americans to be uncomfortable by the amount of gun violence in this country. I also think the pro gun leftists are an almost utopian in their thoughts of the masses having gun ownership in a society that has taught the masses that every single stranger is a threat to your safety.
Extremely useful for an excuse to lock more poor people up, though. Their guns are for survival, not revolution, but that doesn't matter when the subject at hand is just, "Should we increase how much we imprison the people we already imprison a lot"
So, who's going to take away their guns then? The pigs who are as white and reactionary as them?
Look up the Normandale Park shooting in Portland and how leftists carrying stopped the shooting. It won't be possible in our material situation to disarm right-wingers who want to do violence, it's too protected by sympathetic law enforcement and the 2nd ammendment. We're already in a civil war here, we need to do all we can to arm, train, and protect each other.