Skinner box game mechanics suck and are just hollow "entertainment"
All Vidya Gamez are fundamentally Skinner Boxes. At the same time, when you're trapped in a cube all day, it's nice to get a food pellet. Stop shaming people for food pelleting themselves.
Hated every minute of it but just couldn't stop myself until someone hacked my Activision account and stole it breaking me out of the cycle.
My original experience with online games was in a big social circle that whittled away over time. It's less the game pass model itself (which always just descends into "How much pop culture can we shove into your generic Blood Gulch shooter/looter?") than the fact that I'm playing with an endless parade of anonymous that nobodies I ultimately find so upsetting.
I play chess with a co-worker every lunch break we're free, and it's far more fun and fulfilling than the time I spent grinding amid a sea of faceless nobodies.
At the same time, it feels cruel to tell people who don't have an active social circle to just not be online at all.
The only thing worse than the Skinner Box is solitary confinement.
No they are not and I will fight you. If you mean multiplayer online games, well maybe, you might have a point, but I don't play those games and so I will make no claims about them.
However. If you call Outer Wilds or Pathologic/Pathologic 2 or Disco Elysium or A Short Hike or Journey skinner boxes, well, you're just wrong. Games are experiences, they're stories that can be more immersive than a movie or a book and if they're done well, holy shit are they good!
Games are (can be) amazing, and I'm sick of pretending they're not.
Games are experiences, they're stories that can be more immersive than a movie or a book and if they're done well, holy shit are they good!
They're still feedback loops of input and reward. That the reward is "compelling narrative" rather than "loud ding with big number go up" changes the quality of the treat dispensed but not the nature of the box.
Games are (can be) amazing
Skinner Boxes are tools to gauge the behaviors of their subjects.
The form can still be artistic and the reward for interaction can be sublime and the thing itself can still be what it is.
But to take you a tiny bit more seriously, ok? So what? Why does "I have some agency in this story" make a story bad? What actually are you getting at here?
So you're using some weird definition of "skinner box" where you simply mean "human inputs lead to various outputs". Why use this definition? By this definition a fucking mathematical function is a skinner box.
I simply do not understand, in general, what you're trying to say.
you simply mean "human inputs lead to various outputs"
More specifically, its to refer to an experimental device to gauge psychological responses through IO. Well made games attempt to collect and convey more complex information through the mechanic of IO.
By this definition a fucking mathematical function is a skinner box.
The original Skinner Box existed to devise mathematical functions through experimentation. The goal was to quantify behavior in a controlled setting.
Video games repurpose the tool for entertainment. But they are ultimately intended to be revelatory. Games exist to measure and eventually train behavior. A "good" game provides useful insights and beneficial behavior patterns. A "bad" one exists to extract vulnerabilities and exploit them to nefarious ends.
Somehow you missed the point completely about predatory business practices preying on vulnerable people to draw out massive profits.... The entire thing this comment and post is about
All Vidya Gamez are fundamentally Skinner Boxes. At the same time, when you're trapped in a cube all day, it's nice to get a food pellet. Stop shaming people for food pelleting themselves.
My original experience with online games was in a big social circle that whittled away over time. It's less the game pass model itself (which always just descends into "How much pop culture can we shove into your generic Blood Gulch shooter/looter?") than the fact that I'm playing with an endless parade of anonymous that nobodies I ultimately find so upsetting.
I play chess with a co-worker every lunch break we're free, and it's far more fun and fulfilling than the time I spent grinding amid a sea of faceless nobodies.
At the same time, it feels cruel to tell people who don't have an active social circle to just not be online at all.
The only thing worse than the Skinner Box is solitary confinement.
No they are not and I will fight you. If you mean multiplayer online games, well maybe, you might have a point, but I don't play those games and so I will make no claims about them.
However. If you call Outer Wilds or Pathologic/Pathologic 2 or Disco Elysium or A Short Hike or Journey skinner boxes, well, you're just wrong. Games are experiences, they're stories that can be more immersive than a movie or a book and if they're done well, holy shit are they good!
Games are (can be) amazing, and I'm sick of pretending they're not.
They're still feedback loops of input and reward. That the reward is "compelling narrative" rather than "loud ding with big number go up" changes the quality of the treat dispensed but not the nature of the box.
Skinner Boxes are tools to gauge the behaviors of their subjects.
The form can still be artistic and the reward for interaction can be sublime and the thing itself can still be what it is.
do you think a novel is a skinner box
No. There's no human input that determines the response.
Goosebumps choose your own adventure novels.
But to take you a tiny bit more seriously, ok? So what? Why does "I have some agency in this story" make a story bad? What actually are you getting at here?
Primitive, but closer to the mark.
I don't think it does. The box is just a mechanism. In the same way that a book or a painting can be good or bad, a gameplay loop can, too.
You can have a Beautiful Skinner Box in the same way you can have a Van Gogh or a Tolstoy novel.
So you're using some weird definition of "skinner box" where you simply mean "human inputs lead to various outputs". Why use this definition? By this definition a fucking mathematical function is a skinner box.
I simply do not understand, in general, what you're trying to say.
More specifically, its to refer to an experimental device to gauge psychological responses through IO. Well made games attempt to collect and convey more complex information through the mechanic of IO.
The original Skinner Box existed to devise mathematical functions through experimentation. The goal was to quantify behavior in a controlled setting.
Video games repurpose the tool for entertainment. But they are ultimately intended to be revelatory. Games exist to measure and eventually train behavior. A "good" game provides useful insights and beneficial behavior patterns. A "bad" one exists to extract vulnerabilities and exploit them to nefarious ends.
Somehow you missed the point completely about predatory business practices preying on vulnerable people to draw out massive profits.... The entire thing this comment and post is about
Krogers employs predatory business practices on people. What are you going to tell them? "Don't eat!"
People play these games to escape the horrid reality of daily life.
I haven't told anyone to do anything you're arguing with something you made up in your head