Truthers and general 9/11 conspiracy theories have always read to me as american exceptionalism, like you cant conceive another group of people in a different country hate your country so much they would fly a plane into the twin towers.
Whats more likely, the conspiracy or that the people you have been waging genocidal wars against for the last 50 years finally had enough?
Its just a distraction from americans genocidal foriegn policy, I strongly advise you get a grip.
The conspiracy theories like "controlled demolitions" or "hologram planes" or whatever are all nonsense, but the idea that the US ruling class knew about it beforehand and benefited from it fits into their usual M.O. and isn't any sort of leap in logic.
The last line starts to come closer to the truth, that the upper class knew; sure.
But its more they just 'knew' that installing dictators and repeatdly invading a region will destabilize it and create generations of people who are willing to commit acts of terror against you.
I have 0 patience for people posting any analysis of this that ignores the big fact that someone like, flew a fucking plane into the towers.
I think you misunderstand me, I agree with you about the conspiracy theories. It's absurd nonsense. Once you start getting to that level of "all the planes were faked and all the pilots were made up" or whatever you're just ignoring reality, which ultimately, is what the US state department wants from people. Ironically, the conspiracy theories play into their hands perfectly.
But those are not mutually exclusive are they? I don't think anyone claims that Bush literally did all of it, at least I wouldn't. Yes, the planning was most likely not carried out by the US government itself but by Al-Qaeda who really hated the US a lot but to say that there was no foreknowledge of what was going to happen and no coverup in the aftermath doesn't match with a lot of the stuff that has come out since. Why did the CIA not inform the FBI that potentially dangerous terrorists had entered the country? How were the suspects identified that quickly? How tf do the hijackers passports get found on the sidewalk the next day? Why are there obvious flaws in the NIST report as to how WTC 7 collapsed? Highrises don't collapse at free Fall due to fire. How were they so quick to pass the Patriot act, a 134 page legal document that was passed a month and 15 days after the attack? Considering the gates 9/11 opened for the Bush Administration it's hard to argue that they would not be tempted to at least let it happen if they were informed of it beforehand.
Asking me 200 questions of easily debunked nonsense isnt going to strengthen your arguement and is a typical response to a conspiracy theorist being called out, instead of wasting my time debunking all of this shit (which you wont care about anyway) I will instead just say that like most conspiracy theorists, you all agree on what happened but cannot agree on why it happened.
This is a mythology and is not serious analysis, you are engaging in religion not marxism.
Fair enough but can you point me to places where I can find rebutalls of this?
Edit: particularly for the wtc 7 stuff, I just don't understand how a building that wasn't hit by a plan collapses.
Stop caring, it happened, america carried out a genocide in response and people are still faslely imprisoned in concentration camps on cuban soil as a result.
This entire thing is just a black hole designed to waste your time and is predicated on you having a bias and working backwards from there rather than starting with no assumptions and doing a proper analysis.
Comrade you can't just call someone conspiracy theorist and then answer "stop caring" on the good faith question about one of most important and impactful event of the century.
I can absolutely tell someone to get off the stream of making controlled demolotion theories, it is not a productive stream of thought to go down and only fills the head with utter nonsense.
most important and impactful event of the century.
In the american conciousness maybe, to most people in the world its barely a 4/10; the aftermath, sure, but given the first gulf war already happened I think they would have found any excuse if it didnt.
I agree that ultimately it don't matter since we will get the truth in some years or decades or maybe never, but you must admit USA have long list of false flag attacks or provocations perfectly fitting "qui bono" question and coincidental with their contemporary political line. And it also have a very long tradition to promoting conspiracy theories to obfuscate what's really happened. And at the same time turning legit theories into conspiracy ones, remember everything about Korea and Vietnam that was later proven?
And where they should get answers if not here? On some sites where they will hear that UFO did it? If you don't know the answer or it does not interest you at least don't bash people for searching.
If you don’t know the answer or it does not interest you at least don’t bash people for searching.
So far the pro-conspiracy theorists in the thread have posted theories by a guy who advocated IV'ing baking soda as a treatment for cancer, this train of thought is doing real phsycic damage.
The reason why its not even worth engaging in this nonsense is because you can just watch one of the hundreds of hours of recorded footage of the planes slamming into the towers to figure out 'what happened', entertaining anything else is just a black hole of nonsense that piles on 100's of questions of speculation and quasi-science in service of grifting.
Its as simple as we meddled in the middle east and they gave the US 1% of the taste of there own medicine, nothing deeper.
I agree that ultimately it don’t matter since we will get the truth in some years or decades or maybe never,
The truth really isnt that hard to grasp, the nonsense that comes in afterwards on the contary shouldnt be tried to grasp, it is a symptom of the lack of critical thinking taught to americans and the mass delusions they regularly engage in, in place of actually learning solid theory that could improve there lives, this is convienent for the upper class.
Just a minute—is your counterargument based on the idea that flying planes into buildings could be dangerous? I'm not American but I would need some evidence of this. I've seen planes in the air with my own eyes and when they're up that high in the air, they get really, really small.
There are a lot of explanations on building 7. It needed rennovation in the first place. When the planes hit the towers tons of burning debris came out. Some of which hit tower 7. Water to the area was knocked out when the towers fell and firefighters were not focused on getting the fire out. Building 7 was on blazing fire for something like 7 hours before it fell.
If you are interested just search for it there are a ton of reports on what happened with it. People will use a building has never fallen From
Fire argument but, buildings dont usually burn for hours and hours with no one doing anythinf about it.
And the real question is why? Why blow up building 7? What would be the point? Just to fuel conspiracy theorists or what?
Truthers and general 9/11 conspiracy theories have always read to me as american exceptionalism, like you cant conceive another group of people in a different country hate your country so much they would fly a plane into the twin towers.
Whats more likely, the conspiracy or that the people you have been waging genocidal wars against for the last 50 years finally had enough?
Its just a distraction from americans genocidal foriegn policy, I strongly advise you get a grip.
The conspiracy theories like "controlled demolitions" or "hologram planes" or whatever are all nonsense, but the idea that the US ruling class knew about it beforehand and benefited from it fits into their usual M.O. and isn't any sort of leap in logic.
The last line starts to come closer to the truth, that the upper class knew; sure.
But its more they just 'knew' that installing dictators and repeatdly invading a region will destabilize it and create generations of people who are willing to commit acts of terror against you.
I have 0 patience for people posting any analysis of this that ignores the big fact that someone like, flew a fucking plane into the towers.
I think you misunderstand me, I agree with you about the conspiracy theories. It's absurd nonsense. Once you start getting to that level of "all the planes were faked and all the pilots were made up" or whatever you're just ignoring reality, which ultimately, is what the US state department wants from people. Ironically, the conspiracy theories play into their hands perfectly.
But those are not mutually exclusive are they? I don't think anyone claims that Bush literally did all of it, at least I wouldn't. Yes, the planning was most likely not carried out by the US government itself but by Al-Qaeda who really hated the US a lot but to say that there was no foreknowledge of what was going to happen and no coverup in the aftermath doesn't match with a lot of the stuff that has come out since. Why did the CIA not inform the FBI that potentially dangerous terrorists had entered the country? How were the suspects identified that quickly? How tf do the hijackers passports get found on the sidewalk the next day? Why are there obvious flaws in the NIST report as to how WTC 7 collapsed? Highrises don't collapse at free Fall due to fire. How were they so quick to pass the Patriot act, a 134 page legal document that was passed a month and 15 days after the attack? Considering the gates 9/11 opened for the Bush Administration it's hard to argue that they would not be tempted to at least let it happen if they were informed of it beforehand.
Asking me 200 questions of easily debunked nonsense isnt going to strengthen your arguement and is a typical response to a conspiracy theorist being called out, instead of wasting my time debunking all of this shit (which you wont care about anyway) I will instead just say that like most conspiracy theorists, you all agree on what happened but cannot agree on why it happened.
This is a mythology and is not serious analysis, you are engaging in religion not marxism.
Fair enough but can you point me to places where I can find rebutalls of this? Edit: particularly for the wtc 7 stuff, I just don't understand how a building that wasn't hit by a plan collapses.
My advice?
Stop caring, it happened, america carried out a genocide in response and people are still faslely imprisoned in concentration camps on cuban soil as a result.
This entire thing is just a black hole designed to waste your time and is predicated on you having a bias and working backwards from there rather than starting with no assumptions and doing a proper analysis.
Comrade you can't just call someone conspiracy theorist and then answer "stop caring" on the good faith question about one of most important and impactful event of the century.
I can absolutely tell someone to get off the stream of making controlled demolotion theories, it is not a productive stream of thought to go down and only fills the head with utter nonsense.
In the american conciousness maybe, to most people in the world its barely a 4/10; the aftermath, sure, but given the first gulf war already happened I think they would have found any excuse if it didnt.
I agree that ultimately it don't matter since we will get the truth in some years or decades or maybe never, but you must admit USA have long list of false flag attacks or provocations perfectly fitting "qui bono" question and coincidental with their contemporary political line. And it also have a very long tradition to promoting conspiracy theories to obfuscate what's really happened. And at the same time turning legit theories into conspiracy ones, remember everything about Korea and Vietnam that was later proven?
And where they should get answers if not here? On some sites where they will hear that UFO did it? If you don't know the answer or it does not interest you at least don't bash people for searching.
So far the pro-conspiracy theorists in the thread have posted theories by a guy who advocated IV'ing baking soda as a treatment for cancer, this train of thought is doing real phsycic damage.
The reason why its not even worth engaging in this nonsense is because you can just watch one of the hundreds of hours of recorded footage of the planes slamming into the towers to figure out 'what happened', entertaining anything else is just a black hole of nonsense that piles on 100's of questions of speculation and quasi-science in service of grifting.
Its as simple as we meddled in the middle east and they gave the US 1% of the taste of there own medicine, nothing deeper.
The truth really isnt that hard to grasp, the nonsense that comes in afterwards on the contary shouldnt be tried to grasp, it is a symptom of the lack of critical thinking taught to americans and the mass delusions they regularly engage in, in place of actually learning solid theory that could improve there lives, this is convienent for the upper class.
Just a minute—is your counterargument based on the idea that flying planes into buildings could be dangerous? I'm not American but I would need some evidence of this. I've seen planes in the air with my own eyes and when they're up that high in the air, they get really, really small.
There are a lot of explanations on building 7. It needed rennovation in the first place. When the planes hit the towers tons of burning debris came out. Some of which hit tower 7. Water to the area was knocked out when the towers fell and firefighters were not focused on getting the fire out. Building 7 was on blazing fire for something like 7 hours before it fell.
If you are interested just search for it there are a ton of reports on what happened with it. People will use a building has never fallen From Fire argument but, buildings dont usually burn for hours and hours with no one doing anythinf about it.
And the real question is why? Why blow up building 7? What would be the point? Just to fuel conspiracy theorists or what?