Spoilers: Frank defends games as a storytelling medium and artform, if anyone is in to that
spoiler
There are far more than that. Some of them are weird or niche but there's a great deal of powerful storytelling in the vast, vast medium of video games. There's a whole generation of gamers who start crying when they here Adagio for Strings. "What can Change the Nature of a Man" can still get conversations going with grognards 25 years later, with Planescape Torment being considered among the best novels of the 20th century in some circles. Countless thousands of hours of video exist on youtube trying to piece together the story of Dark Souls from the tattered rags and broken swords that greater souls have left behind. Even the just-released Tactical Breach Wizards is a fun little human story about broken people coming together to try to make a broken world a little bit kinder (by throwing cops out of windows).
The idea that vidjya's are not a good medium for storytelling and cannot tell powerful stories is not well founded.
Some of the strongest storytelling games are sandbox games like Kenshi where the story is created by the player as they interact with the world, something that no other medium can really do. The absolutely outlandish tales of heroism and horror that come out of the Dwarf Fortress community attest to that, where certain famed figures (Cacame Apebalded, Elven King of Dwarves) or dread halls (Boatmurdered) are still discussed years after the posts that introduced them to the community. EVE online has journalism attached to explaining all it's politics and ongoing wars. Most Foxhole players have some story about a heroic breakthrough or a hardfought defense.
Games will usually differ from other mediums in that games, nearly uniquely (theatre can sorta do it) allow the audience to also be a participant in creating the story. Even if it's just shooting your way through straight hallways of badguys the audience is still making choices about how the story unfolds in a way that really isn't possible in literature, film, sculpture, or painting. Like even CoD, a widely game widely derided for it's awful storytelling, has stand out moments that have stuck with people for years or decades. Gamers of a certain age all remember the nuke going off in, what, Modern Warfare? as well as the betrayal at the end of whatever game (I honestly cannot remember what happens in which game there have been so many of htem over half my lifetime). And I still very fondly remember the Battle of Kursk setpiece in one of the older games, carving a path through Nazi panzers without even slowing down.
I think a big parto f why vidjyas are such a strong storytelling medium is that they're accessible in different ways than art, literature, and film. Like to really understand and appreciate art you need an education in art. You're just not going to get the full effect if you don't know the schools, the symbols, the motifs, the techniques. You can enjoy it, but you're enjoying the tip of a very deep iceberg. With literature it's really simple; Many people are not strong readers and books can be outright inaccessible even for fully literate people. Ulysses is not for everyone! And with film, it's similar to fine art; There's a lot going on in film. Even the silliest B-movie splatterfests have a lot of deep complexity if you understand the history of horror movies, the complexity of horror special effects, the sociol and cultural environments the movie was made in.
Games differ from all of these by dropping the audience directly in to the world. I'll use HALO:CE as an example because it's one I'm most familiar with. Through diegetic means the game shows and teaches the player about the world. Cortana's offhand comment about destroying several Convenant warships before the Autumn was too critically damaged to continue to fight tells us immediately that she's extremely competent and dangerous. We see Keyes resolute acceptance of the situation, remaining calm and purposeful against miserable odds. Our first encounter with Convenant elites in the cafeteria gives us time to see the enemy, learn a bit about their tactics and weaponry, and learn about critical parts of the game and world; We're using guns and wearing body armor while these huge alien space marines have shields and plasma weapons! We learn the stakes of hte conflict when we find out that the Covenant are shooting down outgoing lifeboats, that this really is a fight to the death. Then in the next level we step out of the lifeboat and see the HALO ring stretching out above us.
Larry Niven's Ringworld explains the marvel of the Ringworld, it's scope, but HALO:CE puts the audience on the Halo, lets you look up in wonder at the vast megastructure. Then you're right back to fighting for your life.
I for sure agree with some of what you say but I think it’s more that the medium has the potential to do that than it has done so meaningfully at this point.
I don’t think bio shock holds up super well tbh (although it was one of my favs in hs/college) and even tho the twist is pretty good I still think it’s handedly in the “for a game” tier imo (obv it’s lauded but I think it’s kinda over rated bc games are generally pretty abysmal when it comes to the narrative part)
Planescape is one of the ones I had in mind in my op tho. No notes on that one lol
I 100% agree that the unique perspective of being placed inside the story is a huge thing for games as a medium but I don’t believe it’s been utilized to its fullest yet in a way that can compare to other mediums. It’s a young art form so I wasn’t making a criticism on the scope of possibilities or potential in the medium just where we are as I see it now.
There are games that definitely hit close, the way parts of games like what remains of Edith finch give you a window into being a character is great.
One of the games I think does this super well is soma. Like that is a game that honestly wouldn’t work as anything else bc it’s central theme of identity hinges on the player experiencing it in the first person
Sadly bc of capitalist pressures 99% of games don’t really explore this stuff especially outside of niche indie games that have a limited budget. And tbh that’s generally why I prefer those games.
Like there are certainly extremely compelling stories but I just do not see it in the overwhelming majority of what the medium has to offer. And the micro/emergent stories that can come out of gameplay is an interesting and novel part of the experience but I generally wouldn’t put that thematically on the same level of what’s been achieved outside of games and maybe it’s just me but that’s kind of what I’m thinking of when I think narratives.
Hope you enjoy them! Soma is one of my favorite games ever and I always think of it when the conversation is about the unique advantages that player agency brings to the possibilities of story telling
Edith finch is a smaller kind of thing but enjoyable. I don’t want to big it up like it’s a masterpiece or anything but It’s ann enjoyable, experimental and short kind of game i think it presents some interesting stuff to think about wrt to story telling and how games can uniquely do it
Spoilers: Frank defends games as a storytelling medium and artform, if anyone is in to that
spoiler
There are far more than that. Some of them are weird or niche but there's a great deal of powerful storytelling in the vast, vast medium of video games. There's a whole generation of gamers who start crying when they here Adagio for Strings. "What can Change the Nature of a Man" can still get conversations going with grognards 25 years later, with Planescape Torment being considered among the best novels of the 20th century in some circles. Countless thousands of hours of video exist on youtube trying to piece together the story of Dark Souls from the tattered rags and broken swords that greater souls have left behind. Even the just-released Tactical Breach Wizards is a fun little human story about broken people coming together to try to make a broken world a little bit kinder (by throwing cops out of windows).
The idea that vidjya's are not a good medium for storytelling and cannot tell powerful stories is not well founded.
Some of the strongest storytelling games are sandbox games like Kenshi where the story is created by the player as they interact with the world, something that no other medium can really do. The absolutely outlandish tales of heroism and horror that come out of the Dwarf Fortress community attest to that, where certain famed figures (Cacame Apebalded, Elven King of Dwarves) or dread halls (Boatmurdered) are still discussed years after the posts that introduced them to the community. EVE online has journalism attached to explaining all it's politics and ongoing wars. Most Foxhole players have some story about a heroic breakthrough or a hardfought defense.
Games will usually differ from other mediums in that games, nearly uniquely (theatre can sorta do it) allow the audience to also be a participant in creating the story. Even if it's just shooting your way through straight hallways of badguys the audience is still making choices about how the story unfolds in a way that really isn't possible in literature, film, sculpture, or painting. Like even CoD, a widely game widely derided for it's awful storytelling, has stand out moments that have stuck with people for years or decades. Gamers of a certain age all remember the nuke going off in, what, Modern Warfare? as well as the betrayal at the end of whatever game (I honestly cannot remember what happens in which game there have been so many of htem over half my lifetime). And I still very fondly remember the Battle of Kursk setpiece in one of the older games, carving a path through Nazi panzers without even slowing down.
I think a big parto f why vidjyas are such a strong storytelling medium is that they're accessible in different ways than art, literature, and film. Like to really understand and appreciate art you need an education in art. You're just not going to get the full effect if you don't know the schools, the symbols, the motifs, the techniques. You can enjoy it, but you're enjoying the tip of a very deep iceberg. With literature it's really simple; Many people are not strong readers and books can be outright inaccessible even for fully literate people. Ulysses is not for everyone! And with film, it's similar to fine art; There's a lot going on in film. Even the silliest B-movie splatterfests have a lot of deep complexity if you understand the history of horror movies, the complexity of horror special effects, the sociol and cultural environments the movie was made in.
Games differ from all of these by dropping the audience directly in to the world. I'll use HALO:CE as an example because it's one I'm most familiar with. Through diegetic means the game shows and teaches the player about the world. Cortana's offhand comment about destroying several Convenant warships before the Autumn was too critically damaged to continue to fight tells us immediately that she's extremely competent and dangerous. We see Keyes resolute acceptance of the situation, remaining calm and purposeful against miserable odds. Our first encounter with Convenant elites in the cafeteria gives us time to see the enemy, learn a bit about their tactics and weaponry, and learn about critical parts of the game and world; We're using guns and wearing body armor while these huge alien space marines have shields and plasma weapons! We learn the stakes of hte conflict when we find out that the Covenant are shooting down outgoing lifeboats, that this really is a fight to the death. Then in the next level we step out of the lifeboat and see the HALO ring stretching out above us.
Larry Niven's Ringworld explains the marvel of the Ringworld, it's scope, but HALO:CE puts the audience on the Halo, lets you look up in wonder at the vast megastructure. Then you're right back to fighting for your life.
spoiler
I for sure agree with some of what you say but I think it’s more that the medium has the potential to do that than it has done so meaningfully at this point.
I don’t think bio shock holds up super well tbh (although it was one of my favs in hs/college) and even tho the twist is pretty good I still think it’s handedly in the “for a game” tier imo (obv it’s lauded but I think it’s kinda over rated bc games are generally pretty abysmal when it comes to the narrative part)
Planescape is one of the ones I had in mind in my op tho. No notes on that one lol
I 100% agree that the unique perspective of being placed inside the story is a huge thing for games as a medium but I don’t believe it’s been utilized to its fullest yet in a way that can compare to other mediums. It’s a young art form so I wasn’t making a criticism on the scope of possibilities or potential in the medium just where we are as I see it now.
There are games that definitely hit close, the way parts of games like what remains of Edith finch give you a window into being a character is great.
One of the games I think does this super well is soma. Like that is a game that honestly wouldn’t work as anything else bc it’s central theme of identity hinges on the player experiencing it in the first person
Sadly bc of capitalist pressures 99% of games don’t really explore this stuff especially outside of niche indie games that have a limited budget. And tbh that’s generally why I prefer those games.
Like there are certainly extremely compelling stories but I just do not see it in the overwhelming majority of what the medium has to offer. And the micro/emergent stories that can come out of gameplay is an interesting and novel part of the experience but I generally wouldn’t put that thematically on the same level of what’s been achieved outside of games and maybe it’s just me but that’s kind of what I’m thinking of when I think narratives.
Thank you for your reply. I agree on Bioshock. I never really got it.
I'll put these on my list. I'm kind of between games and I need some new things to check out.
Hope you enjoy them! Soma is one of my favorite games ever and I always think of it when the conversation is about the unique advantages that player agency brings to the possibilities of story telling
Edith finch is a smaller kind of thing but enjoyable. I don’t want to big it up like it’s a masterpiece or anything but It’s ann enjoyable, experimental and short kind of game i think it presents some interesting stuff to think about wrt to story telling and how games can uniquely do it