These statistics quantitatively express a significant shift in political mood and perspective that has occurred over just the last year, as the COVID-19 pandemic has ravaged the US and the world.
They're talking about a vague conception of social democracy, does anyone here seriously believe 10 percent of US youth have suddenly become Marxists or anarchists?
No but expecting them to instantly go from “kid living through years of propaganda in the imperial core, after decades of a decrepit left” to Marxists instantly is dumb as hell.
Yes it is, which is why it's a good thing I never held that expectation
That's not the point I think. This kinda marks a shift towards the left, and left movements. Which is absolutely necessary for any radical change. We just need to make sure they'll move further.
It marks a shift towards a deadend that neoliberalism was literally designed to destroy, and quite successfully, social democracy is not on the same spectrum as socialism, stuff like this is why I believe the left and right dichotomy only results in two-dimensional thinking, where every political ideology imaginable is somehow graphed on a single line, it leads to this bizarre assumption that soc-dems somehow inevitably digivolve into full-blown socialists, makes no sense
All current trends point to the conclusion that they WILL in fact keep hammering at it for a long, long, long time, for your argument to make sense there would have to be some sort of cross generational memory that could inform these new soc-dems of the limitations and deadends of their ideology, leading them on to more socialist alternatives, well that memory doesn't exist, many of them think they've discovered a whole new philosophy that corrects all the previous errors of the old systems, and that's why it's a plateau not a path
Why you getting all butthurt hours later, yes motherfucka ALL CURRENT TRENDs as in every election in the last 40 years, do I really have to cite something that should be obvious?
I have never said they will inevitably become socialists. I've said that making sure they do is on us. We have a harder time convincing someone of socialism who immediately stops any rational thought when they hear the word "socialism" than someone who is already partly on board with socialist policies.
Historically soc-dems have been some of the most virulent and effective anti-commusntists, your argument sound good in a vacuum but there's never been any evidence of it happening on a large scale
You know which movements are an even bigger thread to communists? Open anti-communists like fascists.
Hitler did set back the communist movement in Germany quite a bit by literally killing them. Sure, soc-dems have broader appeal by being less radical, and most people being too afraid of true radical change. But I'll still have an easier time of pulling a soc-dem over, than I'll pull a fascist or neoliberal over.
Fuck, even Lenin did side with soc-dems, when it was to oppose more right movements...
They're talking about a vague conception of social democracy, does anyone here seriously believe 10 percent of US youth have suddenly become Marxists or anarchists?
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Yes it is, which is why it's a good thing I never held that expectation
That's not the point I think. This kinda marks a shift towards the left, and left movements. Which is absolutely necessary for any radical change. We just need to make sure they'll move further.
It marks a shift towards a deadend that neoliberalism was literally designed to destroy, and quite successfully, social democracy is not on the same spectrum as socialism, stuff like this is why I believe the left and right dichotomy only results in two-dimensional thinking, where every political ideology imaginable is somehow graphed on a single line, it leads to this bizarre assumption that soc-dems somehow inevitably digivolve into full-blown socialists, makes no sense
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All current trends point to the conclusion that they WILL in fact keep hammering at it for a long, long, long time, for your argument to make sense there would have to be some sort of cross generational memory that could inform these new soc-dems of the limitations and deadends of their ideology, leading them on to more socialist alternatives, well that memory doesn't exist, many of them think they've discovered a whole new philosophy that corrects all the previous errors of the old systems, and that's why it's a plateau not a path
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Why you getting all butthurt hours later, yes motherfucka ALL CURRENT TRENDs as in every election in the last 40 years, do I really have to cite something that should be obvious?
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Yes, it's occasionally useful to gauge politics by the actual dominate political form
I have never said they will inevitably become socialists. I've said that making sure they do is on us. We have a harder time convincing someone of socialism who immediately stops any rational thought when they hear the word "socialism" than someone who is already partly on board with socialist policies.
Historically soc-dems have been some of the most virulent and effective anti-commusntists, your argument sound good in a vacuum but there's never been any evidence of it happening on a large scale
You know which movements are an even bigger thread to communists? Open anti-communists like fascists.
Hitler did set back the communist movement in Germany quite a bit by literally killing them. Sure, soc-dems have broader appeal by being less radical, and most people being too afraid of true radical change. But I'll still have an easier time of pulling a soc-dem over, than I'll pull a fascist or neoliberal over.
Fuck, even Lenin did side with soc-dems, when it was to oppose more right movements...
Those movements are dead, were dealing with neoliberalism now, don't compare apples and oranges
We still take the opportunity and get people more left.