This thread is intended to clear up any misgivings, founded or not, about the emergent vaccine(s) for the novel coronavirus.
As a lay, I will be relegating this informative task to those who are more qualified, including @carljungblood @Pezevenk @TheOneTrueChapo @ClimateChangeAnxiety @mine and any other knowledgeable persons on this topic. Feel free to comment here. This post will be edited to add quotes from the informed folks who come by.
This will not be a by-and-large discussion on the vampiric American pharmaceutical industry. Whether or not a medicine works is determined by the professionals who develop, test, and distribute them, not by the robber baron that owns it all.
- Now for Knowledge -
Here is a link on some frequently asked questions, answered by a science communcator. (submitted by u/Gay_Wrath)
This vaccine is meant to reduce the severity of the virus and lower the death rate, not to prevent its spread. Is there a precedent for this strategy?
from u/carljungblood
There are promising hints for preventing asymptomatic spread
The FDA's 54-page report is a more detailed analysis of data that weren't in Moderna's initial efficacy findings , which it released on Nov 16. The FDA's Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) meets on Dec 17 . The FDA typically accepts the recommendations of its advisory committee.
According to the new documents, the vaccine was effective against severe disease; of 30 people with severe infections, none were in the group that received the vaccine. Like the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, the one from Moderna shows protection across a range of groups, including people of color, different ages, and both sexes. And similarly, temporary side effects were common, including fatigue, headaches, muscle aches, and injection-site tenderness.
However, additional data from Moderna suggest the vaccine may protect against asymptomatic infections, a key consideration in a vaccine's usefulness for preventing the spread of the virus to others.
In layman's terms, it's hard to tell at this point because there's no way to determine whether antibodies in a patient are from the vaccine or the virus. I assume they will be collecting this data retrospectively between the control and vaccine groups, but in short - hints are there that it stops asymptomatic spread, but more statistical power/retrospective analysis will be required to say for sure.
Was the quick turnaround on the vaccine a result of bureaucratic shortcuts or scientific ones? In other words, is the science any less sound than a typical vaccine?
from u/carljungblood
I would recommend reading this article from the FDA to understand emergency use authorization. Basically, yes, emergency use means faster timelines. This is the second time emergency use has been implemented for a vaccine, the first being the most recent Ebola vaccine. This Lancet article compares the two instances.
Since vaccine distribution is staggered, will there be new pressures for COVID-19 to mutate due to the large unvaccinated population?
from u/carljungblood
This is a legitimate concern. External pressures could put pressure on the virus to mutate. However, this has not yet been observed for SARS-CoV2. No vaccine rollout is yet capable of dealing with this issue however. Vaccination plus physical restrictions on travel, along with monitoring of viral evolution would be the only way. Which is kinda what’s going on anyway.
How concerning or abnormal are the reports of severe allergic reactions to the COVID vaccines? Are they more or less common than allergic reactions to the flu vaccine?
from u/carljungblood
Allergies are always observed with vaccinations. In the flu vaccine, it’s usually due to the fact that some are produced in eggs. For COVID, it’s likely due to the solubilizing/stabilizing agent polyethylene glycol (PEG) but it’s hard to say yet with such few instances of allergy. The FDA is actively aware of this, but the rates are currently not above what would be observed by more traditional vaccines like MMR.
Is there any indication that these vaccines will work after four months?
from u/carljungblood
The coronavirus (SARS CoV-2 at least) mutates very slowly. If mutation rates are geographical entities, SARS-CoV-2 is the US, flu is the world, and HIV is the solar system. Your understanding is correct, but it’s much more of a problem for other viruses. More realistically, another separate coronavirus will emerge (like SARS or MERS) rather than this one mutating to escape control. Famous last words though, as vaccination will definitely apply pressure on the virus to adopt mutations. But again, it’s not in the nature of this type of virus.
Which companies (or did they all) produce mRNA vaccines? I know this is generally seen as the “first” time we’ve been able to produce a vaccine this way and that has been part of the reason for such a quick production?
from u/carljungblood
These will be the first FDA approved RNA vaccines, but the tech has been around for a while. RNA is one of the most labile, transient biomolecules by design. It’s meant to transcribe the gene from DNA to protein, in basically a “burn after reading” time frame. Residual RNA is quickly digested by enzymes to avoid old messages signaling where they shouldn’t. The tech has been around for decades, but due to the instability compared to protein vaccines, it’s been tough to implement logistically. These problems are still relevant based on the -20 to -80 C storage requirements for Moderna and Pfizer respectively, however due to chemical modifications to the RNA, RNA products are more stable than ever. RNA has an advantage to traditional vaccines because it’s much cheaper and simpler to make than proteins. It also requires less adjuvanticity (vaccine components to rile the immune response like alum) based on it’s own inherent properties. RNA is easier to produce on large scales than proteins, and a smaller input yields a larger immune response than protein. All reasons for it’s fast implementation, you basically just need the genetic code of your target, design the RNA, plug it into your delivery system and go. The idea is that it will be a better base for delivering vaccines in the past, which have always been more ad hoc experiences.
No I havent noticed it either on Chapo (skepticism over russias vaccine is rampant everywhere else online obviosuly), this was more a general thing for me. I called into a local radio thing when they had some doctors on to talk about the covid vaccine and they screened me out when I said that's what I wanted to ask. Still curious and cha cha is probably one of the few places you could ask and get a straight answer.
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