Like my base assumption is that she's wrong. If you think the PMC is an actual class then you're also only one step away from 🤡

https://twitter.com/jacob__posts/status/1367492298783744001?s=19

  • DasKarlBarx [he/him,comrade/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    4 years ago

    The worst (and like maybe only bad) part of the episode was Ambre saying she wasn't "professional" while working as a writer and podcaster for the last... 4+ years?

    Like it's ok to be "professional". You can be "professional" and leftist. It's weird to pretend and cosplay like you aren't.

    • asaharyev [he/him]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Teachers are highly trained and educated professionals, but I defy people to try to say that teachers can't be leftists.

      The idea that professionals can't be leftists is absurd.

        • asaharyev [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          4 years ago

          Exactly.

          I mean, Marx was a highly educated professional.

          There are some silly ideas about training, professionalism, and politics.

          • Harukiller14 [they/them,comrade/them]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Yup that's who I want running the show. People with no training in anything, no sense of professionalism, and no understanding of politics.

          • JuneFall [none/use name]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Like it’s ok to be “professional”. You can be “professional” and leftist. It’s weird to pretend and cosplay like you aren’t.

            Marx class position was a peculiar one. Pretty much academic and then lifetime revolutionary and journalist later on his main income was from Engel's and as such he was in his class position more akin to an artist than a journalist. However individual class positions mean little, as when quantity itself becomes a new quality does the analysis makes sense. E.g. the first proletarian wasn't a class in themselves, only the mass of proletarians created a class.

      • Poetjustice [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        smh everyone knows teachers are cops especially ms. brown of 10th grade english literature, she knows what she did

      • snackage [he/him]
        hexagon
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        Teachers are working class so the whole discussion is fucking moot. If for you teachers are PMC then that term is fucking useless.

        • asaharyev [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          People who conflate PMCs and professionals...someone here tried to imply people who made over like $50k a year couldn't be...it's been said.

          I'm not really listening to the pod anymore, but it seemed implied in the comment I responded to that Amber has implied that before.

      • a_dog [any,he/him]
        ·
        edit-2
        4 years ago

        no they’re not. you can become a teacher with just a college degree, you don’t have to have any training at all. it’s also low pay and low authority and prestige. barely a profession.

        • asaharyev [he/him]
          ·
          4 years ago

          Not only do most states require a master's degree, you also have to have teaching licensure.

          I'm required to do 150 hours of training over the course of every 5 years in order to renew my license. Some in my subject matter, some in pedagogy, some in SEI education, and some in special education.

          But go off, I guess.

          • a_dog [any,he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            bachelor’s degree in anything, no training in my state

        • rolly6cast [none/use name]
          ·
          4 years ago

          It's still considered a part of the PMC, because a college degree in education is considered professional. It's why the term doesn't make sense.

          • a_dog [any,he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            it’s about prestige, authority, education and income. no one counts teachers.

            • rolly6cast [none/use name]
              ·
              4 years ago

              Teachers and nurses are explicitly part of the PMC as the term was formed. Educational background, cultural sensibilities, and the like, not even income per se in its original conception or in most of the analysis. The entire point people like Liu and Ehrenreich using it is downwardly mobile, but attempting to combine that into a singular "class" that isn't coherent. If you dislike intermediate managers, if you dislike the petty bourgeois, sure, but those would work better to refer to rich people than "PMC".

                • rolly6cast [none/use name]
                  ·
                  4 years ago

                  They are, by the creator of the term, by the scope of the term, and by how it's still used today by most people using it, which involves professionals like teachers and nurses, due to a shared educational background and basic cultural norms (the core part of "PMC", as it was used originally and as it is still used now where most analysis involves looking at the culture and personalities) with the managerial position petty bourgeois. If you don't mean to include teachers, use "rich people" instead and you'd already be more accurate.

                  • a_dog [any,he/him]
                    ·
                    4 years ago

                    true except for the third and important criterion. it’s not how it’s used.

                    • rolly6cast [none/use name]
                      ·
                      edit-2
                      4 years ago

                      That is how it's still used today, in both academic settings as well as online informal settings, whether it's social media or media people like Matt. For in person organizing in DSA affiliated groups, the term sometimes comes up, with attempted addendums to exclude this or that proletariat occupation each time because it's still used to include proletarians in social media circles near to DSA when something negative comes up related to them.

    • rolly6cast [none/use name]
      ·
      edit-2
      4 years ago

      Really is a term for petit bourgeois professionals to try and not be seen as "cringe", obscuring class relations and appealing to "well I speak and act in a less academia-business-serious way so I'm not professional and not petty bourgeois".