America: the greatest, richest, freest country in the world – or is it? David Cross, of Mr. Show, Arrested Development, and The Dark Divide, joins us to disc...
I don't care. Convincing people into the social democracy position first with the belief it will lead them to socialism afterwards has failed in literally hundreds of countries. If the American left goes down this misguided route then the outcome will be a new social contract via reformism, not socialism. Just like it has in literally every other western country that went down this road in the past.
Argue for socialism. Not a fake middle ground. Social democracy is literally the biggest threat to the left movement next to fascism, it is our enemy.
The goal is to counter right-wing propaganda. Considering what most Americans' views are, this stuff is definitely the right direction to be pushing people. I bet if you ran a poll on this site, most of us were SocDems before we were communists.
If you think this kind of content makes the Left worse off than before, you need to log off and talk to Americans.
Hard disagree. Pushing americans to social democracy is literally the opposite of what we want. Social democracy is where movements go to fucking die.
If you create a social democrat movement in the process of building your socialist movement you will NEVER achieve socialism, you will only achieve social democracy, and the outcome of that is setting up some future generation 80 years down the line to fight the same fucking battle you failed at because capitalism will strip those socdem victories as soon as it can.
Learn from the fucking past. The entirety of Eastern Europe rejected social democracy and flipped socialist, not one of them had a socdem movement. The entirety of Western Europe had a social democratic movement and the socialist movement died in every single fucking country.
It should be viewed as being as much the enemy as fascism is. If you do not understand this you are not actually trying to achieve socialism. You are not thinking straight or you are a wrecker who only wants to achieve social democracy and nothing more. I implore you to think this through. Pushing people to ""friendly"" capitalism will not be a victory it will be a massive monumental failure. What do you want? Do you want socialism? Or do you want to just win some basic improvements to quality of life and damn everyone that comes after you to a hundred years more capitalism? Because that's what you're doing if you choose that path, damning 5 generations.
Once again: We could do a poll on this site, and I'd bet my fucking life that at least 50% of this site had socdem views before becoming communists.
20th Century European socdem movements were to their core anticommunist. There were real communist movements with social power behind them, and the socdems fought against them. That doesn't exist in America. Americans don't become socdems because they have an ideological commitment to anticommunism, they become socdems because they see the flaws in our system, but since the political climate here is so right-wing, actual socialism is entirely out of anything approaching the mainstream conversation. Let me reiterate from the first line of this comment, this site is full of American former socdems turned communists.
You're right about 20th Century European socdem movements, but the current political climate of the United States is in no way equivalent, and I struggle to see ANY situation in which it's a bad thing to make people more conscious of class and of the utter failure of the American system to provide for people.
I don't care. Convincing people into the social democracy position first with the belief it will lead them to socialism afterwards has failed in literally hundreds of countries. If the American left goes down this misguided route then the outcome will be a new social contract via reformism, not socialism. Just like it has in literally every other western country that went down this road in the past.
Argue for socialism. Not a fake middle ground. Social democracy is literally the biggest threat to the left movement next to fascism, it is our enemy.
The goal is to counter right-wing propaganda. Considering what most Americans' views are, this stuff is definitely the right direction to be pushing people. I bet if you ran a poll on this site, most of us were SocDems before we were communists.
If you think this kind of content makes the Left worse off than before, you need to log off and talk to Americans.
Hard disagree. Pushing americans to social democracy is literally the opposite of what we want. Social democracy is where movements go to fucking die.
If you create a social democrat movement in the process of building your socialist movement you will NEVER achieve socialism, you will only achieve social democracy, and the outcome of that is setting up some future generation 80 years down the line to fight the same fucking battle you failed at because capitalism will strip those socdem victories as soon as it can.
Learn from the fucking past. The entirety of Eastern Europe rejected social democracy and flipped socialist, not one of them had a socdem movement. The entirety of Western Europe had a social democratic movement and the socialist movement died in every single fucking country.
It should be viewed as being as much the enemy as fascism is. If you do not understand this you are not actually trying to achieve socialism. You are not thinking straight or you are a wrecker who only wants to achieve social democracy and nothing more. I implore you to think this through. Pushing people to ""friendly"" capitalism will not be a victory it will be a massive monumental failure. What do you want? Do you want socialism? Or do you want to just win some basic improvements to quality of life and damn everyone that comes after you to a hundred years more capitalism? Because that's what you're doing if you choose that path, damning 5 generations.
Once again: We could do a poll on this site, and I'd bet my fucking life that at least 50% of this site had socdem views before becoming communists.
20th Century European socdem movements were to their core anticommunist. There were real communist movements with social power behind them, and the socdems fought against them. That doesn't exist in America. Americans don't become socdems because they have an ideological commitment to anticommunism, they become socdems because they see the flaws in our system, but since the political climate here is so right-wing, actual socialism is entirely out of anything approaching the mainstream conversation. Let me reiterate from the first line of this comment, this site is full of American former socdems turned communists.
You're right about 20th Century European socdem movements, but the current political climate of the United States is in no way equivalent, and I struggle to see ANY situation in which it's a bad thing to make people more conscious of class and of the utter failure of the American system to provide for people.
lol at calling me a wrecker