If I'm being completely honest, I dont really believe we have free will. Or we do, but in an almost entirely meaningless way on a civilizational scale. While you might be able to make small choices, material conditions and the flow of history ultimately decide the course of your life. We're all just products of our environment which none of us can change on our own, and as much as we can change our environment as a collective is decided upon by current conditions which are determined by oast conditions, etc. Basically i think the entirity of history was determined at the big bang, and were all just along for the ride.

  • space_comrade [he/him]
    ·
    4 years ago

    Anyone claiming that free will arises from quantum mechanics is a complete quack.

    I mean you're pretty much right but I wouldn't completely discount all of the non mainstream interpretations of quantum mechanics. Penrose (a nobel laurelate in physics) seems to be pretty convinced consciousness plays some role in quantum mechanics and I wouldn't just completely discount his opinion.

    There are still a whole lot of unresolved questions when it comes to this stuff and I think we're in for another paradigm shift at some point in the future provided we don't capitalism ourselves back into the middle ages.

    • StLangoustine [any]
      ·
      4 years ago

      Yeah. David Chalmers, who's a big name in the philosophy of mind, has also been looking into this "quantum mind, free will through probability manipulation" idea. Seems unlikely to me but I wouldn't dismiss him out of hand.

      • space_comrade [he/him]
        ·
        4 years ago

        It's getting likelier IMO.

        I think materialist science ignores the mind-body problem too much, it cannot really be dismissed out of hand like it is today by most scientists. I have a feeling at some point in the near future quantum mechanics and/or neuroscience is gonna hit a wall and then it's gonna be back to the drawing board.

        • StLangoustine [any]
          ·
          4 years ago

          I agree that the question of consciousness is fascinating and isn't talked enough about by scientists, but I'd argue that free will (quantum or otherwise) isn't necessary for phenomenal experience and the quantum hypothesis doesn't look like the best shot at explaining consciousness.

          • space_comrade [he/him]
            ·
            4 years ago

            Kastrup is pretty dope. I'm not sure I agree with all of his conjectures about the nature of consciousness (idealism, universal consciousness etc.) but I feel like his base argument against reductive materialism is rock solid. I'm still pretty agnostic what metaphysic is actually the most coherent answer but I'm pretty sure reductive materialism is a dead end.

            I had a conversation about it here a few days ago and it was pretty frustrating honestly, it's almost as if staunch materialists are unable to metacognize their own awareness. They just keep missing the point in ever more innovative ways.