Nice article. Wish RT was more socialist though...along with Russia :ussr-cry:
the Chinese characteristic of socialism with Chinese characteristics is just neoliberalism lol
when deregulating/liberalizing your markets so foreign companies can exploit cheap labor is actually socialism I can’t wait for what socialism will look like in 2050 :deng-cowboy:
the workers in China do not own the means of production, they do not own the fruits of their labor, they are exactly like American workers in most every way, expect the government in China kinda tries to keep the exploitation reigned in to a degree
this isn’t even an anti china take, it’s just annoying to see people acting like china is some socialist beacon that has achieved great strides in developing socialism. working conditions suck, you are still a subject to wage slavery, there is a reason “critical” exists in the phrase critical support
what difference does a revolution make if the material conditions are on par or worse than other capitalist countries while facing the identical exploitation/wage slavery that workers in capitalist countries face
You feel like learning something?
603 Is Socialism With Chinese Characteristics Real Socialism?
Vijay Prashad - What is the Meaning of the Left?
Professor Zhang Weiwei (张维为): The China Model and Its Implications
The Class Nature of the Chinese State A critique of “China’s Long March to Capitalism”.
i don't care what a bunch of professors say about "developing socialism," it doesn't change the fact that the cpc continues to allow the exploitation of its people by foreign and domestic capitalists in the name of rapid industrialization. Is the best socialist system one that says " You will toil, sweat and never realize the fruits of your labor, but in 50 - 70 years we will have the largest economy on the planet because 1st world capitalists exploited your labor."
Income inequality rhetoric ignores that a class can reap the benefits of work via public investment (e.g. a bullet train), even if bosses make more as individuals. Working Chinese people are seeing the fruits of their labour despite billionaires and inequality. To recriminate them for not demanding more is recriminating the virtue of patience
"yes billions of dollars that have been generated by the proletariat funneled into a few dozen billionaires, but actually you are getting the fruits of your labor because the cpc built trains and other public goods! The bare minimum expected of a party that serves proletarian interests."
Yeah man great article, really winning me over with the unironic "the protracted people's billionaire exploiters isn't bad actually, since the party has sway over them they can live off of others labor"
idk why people take any criticism of china to an almost personal level when there is obviously a lot to critique. I would rather live there than in the US sure, but that doesn't mean I'm not going to advocate for actual workers' interests over the "pragmatic approach" that takes 100+ years and doesn't make attempts to alleviate capitalist alienation.
smug western shit head
So a lot of people's retorts to criticisms of China seem to hinge on the assumption that all China-criticizers are white westerns. Hypothetically if this poster was non-white and from the developing world, what would you say to them?
Stalin era industrialization carried the same level of suffering, if not more considering the fact that in the end they failed to acquire/replicate and surpass of the labor-saving methods used (and withheld) by capitalist powers. The idea is to lower the amount of labor input required as quickly as possible, if that means suffering to acquire the most advanced, capital-intensive and highest efficiency means of production so be it.
It reduces the mass of labor required for the same production outcomes - thereby reducing the mass of exploitation required for the same development. And more importantly it means socialists no longer having to be on the defensive technologically and economically.
And it's ~15 years, not 100.
Because we all know that it's better to get overrun by the capitalists than try something different. The CPC caught up in 60 years and you're what? Mad that it wasn't quick or utopian enough? Dictatorship of the Proletariat, nor socialism, entail a full escape from capitalist alienation. The point is that the CPC hasn't ceded control of the economy.
socialism does entail an escape from capitalist alienation lol, how can you argue otherwise? You own the fruit of your labor
but yes the cpc can have much stronger workers protections/rights. I mean just look at 996, while yeah it is "illegal" it is not enforced and expected of workers
I replied elsewhere and addressed the first part. It's hard to envision the necessary growth without some amount of alienation to reinvest elsewhere.
And yeah, they need to work on that. Let's see if they do it before continuing to shit on them, eh?
i think there is a difference between alienation and voluntary contributions for redistribution. Like in a socialist country a factory owned and operated by the workers can decide that they can sell their product at 100% to other companies but offer a reduced rate for redistribution/donate it. The alienation would only occur if the latter was forced because they are having the product of their labor stolen from them in that case. But there is no reason to believe that a collectively owned factory would decide against the voluntary redistribution of a portion of their product to help other people.
996 is just one example, one that has been happening for the better part of a decade.
Neoliberalism does not have to be 1 to 1 with the Washington Consensus, it is mostly used to define the deregulation/liberalization of markets while still maintaining some government oversight to keep industry somewhat in line. "Major industries in China are owned and managed by the state" is somewhat true, but you are making it sounds like nearly every company in China is owned by the CPC, the vast majority are not.
It is no coincidence that when neoliberalism became the de facto economic ideology in the west Deng followed the tenets and deregulated and liberalized the markets to attract western investment. These western companies that outsourced labor/production to china were not owned by the CPC. As is still the case today
Socialism isn’t a fifteen year implementation process where society is reformed into a loose confederation of worker-coops that has outlawed the commodification/profit & rent seeking of housing, food, medicine, and other essentials supported by a welfare state.
why not :angery:
thanks for the links.
Eh, Deng's plan worked. China now is either the first or second wealthiest country, able to hold its own against the US, and now they're rapidly re-introducing the socialist policies that Mao rushed into
It's definitely an interesting discussion to have. I admire China for its efficiency and ability to create a multipolar world after experiencing the difficulties it did in the last century.
My own critiques are very similar to yours but I find that it's hard to discuss them anywhere without people getting aggressive.
I’m chuckling thinking of what a head scratcher this headline is to Libs and Conservatives (at least in the US)
