On what? That the Chinese government claims the camps are to combat terrorism and offer skills training? That the main goal is to make the Uighurs fit into the Chinese economy? Which is a form of sinicization, along with Mandarin and probably other tacit cultural knowledge taught in the camps? That's all pretty open imo I'm not gonna bother googling that for you haha that’s pretty much the list I posted
The only thing is ‘to what extent is Uighur-language education available?’ And it’s complex, and there’s very little information about it. But my reading doesn’t fundamentally change in either context, tbh
I won’t lie tho, I don’t particularly have the capacity for a struggle session right now. This is a famously frustrating one, too haha. No one really has much information (which is suspicious to me), and lots of people have strong feelings about whether it’s good or bad to criticize the camps, usually for broader reasons not necessarily specifically to do with XinJiang. It’s... a lot haha o7
I actually don't have a super firm opinion on this stuff. If you look at the top comment here right now, it's me saying what a shitty equivocation this is to the holocaust. It's nothing like that. But on the other hand, there is very little room to be critical of the camps on here which is frustrating. It's scary haha you don't want to say your thoughts cuz people are very quick to anger on the issue, for probably good reason I guess.
But they could have done day schools in communities, like every other 'skills training program' on earth, right? But they did something very different. Idk, I'm fine with being critical until we learn more. That's, like, a fine thing to do hahaha
The question is if you are trying to see this as something sinister China is doing or if they are trying to cope with a very real problem by further developing the region and thereby create more opportunities for the people in the region? For this, IMO it is surely beneficial to learn vocational skills so you can occupy better jobs and to know the common language of China.
I wouldn't say vocational training is always everywhere on earth done like you say, that is silly too. For example, for my apprenticeship I had to travel to another part of the country I live in as well, I don't know, wasn't that bad. This is not really uncommon either. But okay.
Not trying to be antagonistic on this, it definitely is complicated and I'm not saying China is doing everything perfectly either, but I err on the side of China handling this the best they can.
I think you and I are likely very similar in perspective, for real. But we're both just framing our statements from opposite places.
You seem to want to defend the state of China because they’re not as bad as like 99% of americans believe. Which is fair.
I seem to want to criticize the state of China because they definitely aren’t doing things perfectly. And every power structure needs to be criticized, and is prone to criticism. To me it’s impossible that any state, let alone a global superpower, could be untarnished by imperialist tendencies that need to be recognized.
I end up looking like an imperialist american I guess lmao which is deeply ironic, and you end up looking like China stan or something, even though, at the centre, we probably think very similarly.
This is a huge part of why I hate extremely charged conversations like this. Everyone’s being so fucking political instead of just saying the thing, and it makes my brain hurt haha.
And it’s a very, very emotional conversation for people so any amount of disagreement turns into ppl demeaning each other and assuming the other side is just brainwashed or something. It’s exhausting haha solidarity forever
You don't by chance have a source on that handy?
On what? That the Chinese government claims the camps are to combat terrorism and offer skills training? That the main goal is to make the Uighurs fit into the Chinese economy? Which is a form of sinicization, along with Mandarin and probably other tacit cultural knowledge taught in the camps? That's all pretty open imo I'm not gonna bother googling that for you haha that’s pretty much the list I posted
The only thing is ‘to what extent is Uighur-language education available?’ And it’s complex, and there’s very little information about it. But my reading doesn’t fundamentally change in either context, tbh
I won’t lie tho, I don’t particularly have the capacity for a struggle session right now. This is a famously frustrating one, too haha. No one really has much information (which is suspicious to me), and lots of people have strong feelings about whether it’s good or bad to criticize the camps, usually for broader reasons not necessarily specifically to do with XinJiang. It’s... a lot haha o7
I actually don't have a super firm opinion on this stuff. If you look at the top comment here right now, it's me saying what a shitty equivocation this is to the holocaust. It's nothing like that. But on the other hand, there is very little room to be critical of the camps on here which is frustrating. It's scary haha you don't want to say your thoughts cuz people are very quick to anger on the issue, for probably good reason I guess.
But they could have done day schools in communities, like every other 'skills training program' on earth, right? But they did something very different. Idk, I'm fine with being critical until we learn more. That's, like, a fine thing to do hahaha
The question is if you are trying to see this as something sinister China is doing or if they are trying to cope with a very real problem by further developing the region and thereby create more opportunities for the people in the region? For this, IMO it is surely beneficial to learn vocational skills so you can occupy better jobs and to know the common language of China.
I wouldn't say vocational training is always everywhere on earth done like you say, that is silly too. For example, for my apprenticeship I had to travel to another part of the country I live in as well, I don't know, wasn't that bad. This is not really uncommon either. But okay.
Not trying to be antagonistic on this, it definitely is complicated and I'm not saying China is doing everything perfectly either, but I err on the side of China handling this the best they can.
I think you and I are likely very similar in perspective, for real. But we're both just framing our statements from opposite places.
You seem to want to defend the state of China because they’re not as bad as like 99% of americans believe. Which is fair.
I seem to want to criticize the state of China because they definitely aren’t doing things perfectly. And every power structure needs to be criticized, and is prone to criticism. To me it’s impossible that any state, let alone a global superpower, could be untarnished by imperialist tendencies that need to be recognized.
I end up looking like an imperialist american I guess lmao which is deeply ironic, and you end up looking like China stan or something, even though, at the centre, we probably think very similarly.
This is a huge part of why I hate extremely charged conversations like this. Everyone’s being so fucking political instead of just saying the thing, and it makes my brain hurt haha.
And it’s a very, very emotional conversation for people so any amount of disagreement turns into ppl demeaning each other and assuming the other side is just brainwashed or something. It’s exhausting haha solidarity forever