Growing up my favorite hero boy was Batman, but its getting really hard to appreciate a character whos main premise is "I'm a billionaire that beats up poor people in a capitalist hellscape because I don't have a healthy way to deal with my personal trauma".

Is there any saving him or is there a version of batman that can exist inside of a left narrative? Maybe there's an existing comic that has tackled this problem, but I'm not really deep into the...ahem...literature.

Maybe Ninja Batman?

  • leftofthat [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    A lot of cape shit is hard to swallow because of the overarching lib premise of "steal some money, you've accepted having your arms broken". Something I didn't notice before but is very commonly used as a blanket justification for violence.

    That said, it's not all that is happening. Mostly because it's fiction as others have said. So you can be mindful of the shitty stuff while still enjoying the gadgets and fighting since none of it is real.

    Also you can cheer for poison ivy

  • necrocop [he/him,any]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    I know this isn’t really the answer you’re looking for… but you’re allowed to like some things that aren’t specifically leftist in nature.

    If Batman were real, it would definitely be problematic. But he’s not. He’s a comic book/movie character. Your existence does not need to revolve around enjoying only things specifically leftist in nature. It’s too fucking exhausting to live like that. You obviously already see the flaws in his character. So go watch the damn movie read the comics and enjoy yourself. Life is too short and too hard to worry about Batman existing in a leftist narrative. Maybe talk to other people who might not see how Batman is a billionaire that gives poor people concussions. But that doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy it. He’s not real.

    • S4ck [none/use name]
      hexagon
      ·
      3 years ago

      I mean yeah that is my philosophy. I have tickets already lol. I'm just saying it would be nice to have a better version.

  • regularassbitch [she/her]
    ·
    3 years ago

    I think any good version of Batman would have him fundamentally restructuring how Gotham approaches crime and going to a literal war with the police at some point. let me shit out an idea so everyone can tell me it's bad:

    the story begins with Batman chasing someone who has gone on a spree of bank robberies using stolen Wayne tech. initially looking to get his stuff back, Batman catches the person and they are reduced to a crying mess, saying "finally, I need this".

    he asks what they mean and they explain that you are forced go out and do violent crime to even be considered for Arkham and that a lot of people are actually turned away for not meeting their rigid criteria. people who suffer from mental illnesses but are not violent are forced into the Gotham slums, into homelessness, losing everything because the system that the Wayne Foundation solely supports focuses on the taking care of its leadership and not the people they are supposed to help.

    as Bruce Wayne he begins investigating Arkham's failing mental health resources and how the money is distributed, in the process he finds out that the corruption failing the people of Gotham goes back to his mother and father who created an intentionally flawed system to profit off of it, a tradition that continues to the current board of directors. he learns that his parents weren't killed by a random mugger but by Carmine Falcone to ensure their silence regarding the corruption of the Arkham and the Wayne Foundation from its very origins.

    shattered by the discovery that his parents weren't the heroes he assumed him to be, but grifters who were killed in a power struggle to control an empire, Bruce dons the cowl and begins to assault Falcone fronts and distribution centers for narcotics. it turns out the Falcone family is responsible for most drug imports to Gotham, exacerbating an already present mental health crisis and forcing people into poverty and dependency on the family to feed their addictions. Batman begins to brutalize the leaders of the Falcone family but after a few weeks of his assault, another family takes over production.

    seeing the cycle of exploitation before his eyes and realizing he is powerless to stop it, Bruce is shattered. his life's work, both as Bruce Wayne and as Batman were dependent on suffering that he continues to profit from. he realizes that his true power lies in his immense wealth and he begins a process of buying and renovating houses and apartment buildings around Gotham and signing the deeds over to the people most affected by his family's greed. he establishes a fund for the homes' upkeep and institutes a basic income to provide necessities for people who need it. hanging up the cowl for now, Bruce realizes his actions can't fix the failures of capitalism, but he can do his part to make things better for those whose suffering he feels responsible for.

    I'm too lazy to continue this but that's probably enough for the first arc of a series. you could take it a lot of places, making the point that charity doesn't fix the actual issue, having him go to war with the cops/government because his actions are putting private prisons out of business, and nearing the end of the story you could do a civil war :so-true: type thing where Bruce takes up the cowl and uses his Justice League connections to begin a revolution and destroy capitalism once and for all, expending all of his Wayne Foundation resources to fight a global war against capitalists and those who are beholden to them

  • bananon [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Sort of tangentially related but there was that one comic where joker stopped going crazy and realized Batman effectively caused most crime in Gotham through systemic inequality, plus the fact he wasn’t beholden to any oversight. The joker became mayor, expropriated all of Batman’s stuff and reinvested it in the community. The cops got all of Batman’s weapons though so there’s a cringe angle of “refunding the police,” but what are you gonna do they’re all liberals.

  • GnastyGnuts [he/him]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    A long time ago Thoughtslime made a video about Batman and how he (like any fictional character, but especially any superhero) is a reflection of the writer's values. It was a good breakdown of different depictions of Batman, including several that were deeply critical of accumulated wealth and rich people, and some that were considerably more reactionary in their depiction (Frank Miller ...).

    EDIT: I can't find the video, they may have deleted it

  • CyborgMarx [any, any]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    I mean Court of Owls is basically Batman naively teeing up against the demonic bourgeois of Gotham and them absolutely wrecking his ass

    The earliest history of the Court of Owls dates back to Gotham's earliest days in the 1600s and it has been involved in many criminal acts in Gotham over the years. The Court of Owls took notice when billionaire philanthropist Bruce Wayne announces plans to rebuild and reshape Gotham City for the future. The Court sentences Bruce to death and their assassin, the Talon William Cobb, attempts to murder him during a meeting with Lincoln March. They struggle at the top of Wayne Tower and the killer survives a fall from the top. Batman discovers that their society has various secret headquarters throughout hidden rooms in every building established by the Alan Wayne Trust, created by Bruce's great-grandfather, Alan Wayne. Bruce recounts that, as a child, he believed the Court of Owls responsible for the death of his parents and personally investigated the conspiracy before determining that there was no evidence. Batman is caught and tortured by the Court, but escapes

  • Vampire [any]
    ·
    3 years ago

    beats up poor people

    He beats up rich powerful people like The Penguin and Falcone.

  • Tychoxii [he/him, they/them]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    I googled "communist batman" but it was complete brainrot: https://batman.fandom.com/wiki/Batman_(Earth-30)

    • ssjmarx [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Yeah the Red Son comics are such a great premise, but absolutely ruined by American anticommunist brain worms.

      • CTHlurker [he/him]
        ·
        3 years ago

        I honestly don't know how you would write "Red Son" without anticommunist brainworms, since Superman is a litteral Great Man who can reshape society at a whim, and the people have no serious way to stop him. If you wanted to write a superman story about him being a weapon for the USSR and used for the liberation of Mankind, that would be fun for like a minute, but wouldn't really allow for any conflict, since, again, Superman is for all intents and purposes a God.

        • ssjmarx [he/him]
          ·
          edit-2
          3 years ago

          Modern Superman is pretty explicit that Supes doesn't really have loyalty to the US Government, he just believes in "the American Way", ie liberal freedoms. There's one story in particular where Superman rescues a North Korean submarine from sinking, and Americans get pissed off at him, so he has to try and explain that he values all human lives and doesn't put stock in who the government's current enemies are. If I did a Superman in the USSR story, it would be like that - Superman is raised as a socialist and believes in the international project, but while he would defend the USSR from capitalist aggression he wouldn't let himself be used as a "weapon" by it.

    • HornyOnMain
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      "The Superman-led Soviet Union has grown without resorting to war, and has virtually eliminated poverty, disease and the like"

      :party-sicko:

      "but this has started to infringe on individual liberties, and Superman is fast becoming a Big Brother-like figure. A brain surgery technique that turns dissidents into obedient drones, or "Superman Robots," is in use."

      :chumpsky: Randomly inserting anti communism because otherwise your stuff won't get printed is the worst. Also mentioning :1984: on the wiki is cringe libshit.

    • NPa [he/him]
      ·
      3 years ago

      Batman eventually became a grown man and the head of an anarchistic terrorist network that sees the abundance forced upon the people by Superman's system as little more than oppression

      The people want the freedom to starve! Think of all the poor bourgeois pigs, unable to extract surplus value from the workers.

      And then he joins forces with Lexcorp rofl

    • UlyssesT [he/him]
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      "Gotham City is very nearly a police state"

      What would make it fully a police state? President-For-Life Nolan?

  • pppp1000 [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Under no circumstance can Bruce Wayne be a capitalist critic when he himself exploits the labor of those who work for Wayne Enterprise.

    • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
      ·
      edit-2
      3 years ago

      He can be written up as a Class Traitor. There are a few instances in the Animated Series where that angle is emphasized. Even a couple of the movies flirt with the inherently corrupt nature of Wayne Enterprises.

      But yeah, the more common trope is simply that Bruce Wayne has Unlimited Money as a superpower. We're not forced to ask where it comes from.

  • D61 [any]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Possibly a Batman skinned Robin Hood?

    Steals from the wealthy by night through catburglery, hacking, blackmail. Gets the resources into community centers and Food Not Bombs type groups. Bat-punching neo-nazi and the occasional cop or something.

    The tragedy being, they'll never be able to change the system that oppresses those they help. All of the heroic hyper competent "Batmanning" would instantly evaporate if the system that this incarnation of Batman mastered were to be changed. So either all attempts where this Batman tried to lead an organization to create change would be crushed by the current power holders or this Batman would have the hyper ego of our regular Batman and knowing their power to be a "hero" lies solely with the system as is, they never truly fight to change it.

  • Discopanda [he/him]
    ·
    3 years ago

    There was a great script made by Daren Aronofsky and Frank Miller. based on Batman: year one :

    After Bruce Wayne's parents are shot, Bruce loses his fortune and becomes homeless. Alfred's character changed to a African-American man named "Little"Al who runs a Auto-Repair shop and acts as Bruce's mentor. Bruce doesn't travel the world, he instead reads books on various types of combat and practices them. Unlike the comic it would have focused more on Bruce. Bruce uses mostly chemical based weapons when fighting (like the original Bill Finger Batman). Bruce Wayne gets his persona from an intertwined T and W on a ring he wore while fighting crime that was mistaken for a bat. Many key scenes from the comic are omitted from the script. The Batmobile and Batcave are present. The Batmobile was a modified car in "Little-Al"'s garage. The Batcave is located in a abandoned subway station. Gordon has lived in Gotham for years, and is trying to leave for the sake of his pregnant wife. Gordon's wife is renamed Ann. Carmine Falcone is omitted from the script and Gillain B.Loeb would have replaced him as the Master of the Organized crime. Selina Kyle would have been African-American and would have had a more prominent role. Gordon's character would have been suicidal. The Batmobile would have been a Lincoln Continental. There would have been many new characters that were not in the comic.

  • zifnab25 [he/him, any]
    ·
    3 years ago

    Is there any saving him or is there a version of batman that can exist inside of a left narrative?

    I'd point to Spiderman as Batman-done-Right. On his face, he's a working class guy from a low-rent corner of town whose primary antagonists range from billionaire war profiteers (Wilson Fisk and Norman Osborne) to callous violent mercenaries (Hobgoblin, Scorpion, Rhino, Mysterio, Venom) to corporate scientists caught up in their pursuit of fame/fortune and corrupted by their own inventions (Octopus, Lizard, Spencer Smythe).

    Its not a perfect picture, because Spiderman is still very much a creature caught within American Capitalist ideology. But a lot of what he struggles with - poverty, work/life balance, stress, sick family members, the allure of selling out - fits neatly into leftist narratives and themes. Meanwhile, a lot of what he opposes - corporate greed, institutional corruption, the perils of fame and a hostile media - reflect struggles that leftist leaders have historically wrestled with.

    Best of all, Spiderman often turns to the community at-large to get out of tight spots, rather than just throwing money at the problem or pulling a crazy new invention out of his ass. The Andrew Garfield "Amazing Spiderman" has a great bit at the end in which he relies on a line of construction towers to race to a destination. The Sam Rami produced Spiderman movies both heavily play up the Working Man Hero angle, with Spiderman alternately saving and being saved by NYC residents.

  • BringMeExtra [xe/xem,fae/faer]
    ·
    edit-2
    3 years ago

    Anarchist Batman from Red Son was pretty based iirc

    edit: nvm he wasn't. what a waste of a good idea.

    • axont [she/her, comrade/them]
      ·
      3 years ago

      nothing about Red Son was good and its conception of socialism is "what if everyone were lobotomized with lasers"

    • Ziege_Bock [any]
      ·
      3 years ago

      But it was a sick idea. Superman's nursey pod lands hours earlier or later and lands in the USSR, grows up to embody Stakhanovite ideals.