Here is a list of things that automatically disqualify you from being a pilot if you are diagnosed: depression, anxiety, ADHD, autism, diabetes, bpd, PTSD, alcoholism or any other substance abuse disorder. Some understandable, most not so. If you are diagnosed with any of the above the only way to be allowed to fly is to get certified as being completely cured of your condition.
It's difficult for the FAA to prove you have been diagnosed with anything, but easy to prove if you are receiving treatment for anything. So the natural end result is that pilots don't go to the doctor for any of the above.
It's an open secret that the majority of pilots have ADHD and just live with it untreated because of these rules. Aviation feels like a job designed for people with ADHD, it's hilarious. There has been a huge pilot shortage developing these last few decades because as medical practice has improved, pilots get diagnosed before they get their license and realize they are supposed to hide it and suffer in silence if they wanna be a pilot.
Idk where to post this but it's too long for the mega thread so here. Sorry it has nothing to do with communism, as old farts who refuse to get with the times is one of the few big problems we face that isn't unique to capitalism.
Edit: Extra fun thing is I had successfully managed to make myself forget about flying until it came back recently and now it's the only thing I can think about again. When I found out I wasn't allowed to be a pilot I had to force myself to forget, and I guess I forgot why I wasn't supposed to think about planes anymore.
Made a throwaway for this because it's a topic that's very important to me and I need to vent.
I'm one of those commercial pilot's license holders who's currently dealing with all the stress of a previous ADHD diagnosis. Well, I think previous. I took medication on and off in high school, but, in your typical adhd fashion, I don't remember if I was every actually diagnosed or not, lol. But half way through high school, my parents sent me to a private school for learning disabilities because I was being bullied every day in my current school, and barely scrapped by in a few of my classes.
I never knew ADHD was a disqualifying factor for an aviation medical until about half way through my private pilot's license. When you go for an aviation medical, the doctor doesn't have access to all your medical history or anything like that, they just ask you questions about it. And somehow in that first examination, either the topic of adhd either never came up - or, it did, and the doctor decided to issue my medical anyway. Maybe I had the foresight to lie - something that has landed pilots in prison before. I wish I remembered what happened during that first medical. I know for a fact my general doctor knows I hold a pilot's license, and he was the same doctor that prescribed me ADHD meds as a teenager.
Anyway, when I learned of this I was of course pretty freaked out, but being a 19 or 20 yo kid, I thought I could brush it under the carpet and keep going. It was too late, I had already been bitten by the bug. So how did training go for an unmedicated pilot with ADHD? It maybe took a little longer than most people, I took my time studying for exams, and sometimes I would be lazy when booking training flights. But eventually, I passed all my flight and written examinations first attempt, even scoring 100% on one. And I did so with the minimum hour requirements for all my licenses and ratinga. Sure I made mistakes, but I liked to think I was a pretty good pilot.
After getting my commercial ticket, though, I was having a harder time sweeping it all under the rug, at least in my mind. What if I was found out? What if an employer, or potential employer, found out where I went to school as a teen? What if I was involved in an incident, and investigators found out?
I couldn't live with it, and for the past couple of years I've been aimless, not sure what to do with myself after nearly achieving a life goal.
I don't know what the solution is. Yes, obviously a reporting environment that favors treatment over punishment. But I understand the dilemma the FAA has on it's hands, and the responsibility it would take on should it start allowing people to fly with prior mental health issues.
Me? I just wish I hadn't spent all high school staying up till 3am playing video games, and if not that, I wish I had never started flying in the first place. It's a dream I came so close to realizing, and I let go right at my closest approach. I really don't know how I move on.
Thanks for letting me rant here. Sorry for the text wall.
bro..you can already fly. Like, you've past the tests, you are able to do it. Just do it. If you wind up in a crash and it's your fault it's not like you were gonna fly again anyway, and if it isn't then they'll just investigate the phenomena that caused it. It's so unlikely you'd crash given, again, you CAN fly and have proven this, and the chances of you coming back from a crash to fly are so low even if you were johnny neurotypical that you might as well just do it. Go fly comrade.
Its just not that easy for me. Also, if in the wild event of a crash, I could potentially go to jail for failure to disclose on my medical. And what if someone was killed? I don't want to live with that.
Maybe it would be a good idea to talk to an aviation lawyer about it all before giving up. This is the first time I've spoken to anyone about it, there isn't a single person out there in my life who knows I've been struggling with this. It's really hard for me to talk about. If I could be cleared on my medical then of course it would be worth it.
all of those risks exist no matter what when you are a pilot. You could go to jail for gross negligence if you screw up bad enough. Has your ADHD ever affected your ability to fly before? I mean yeah obviously discuss it with an expert, but I'm trying to point out that your worries are somewhat irrational(Not saying unimportant, but worth treating as an internal, not external issue). Obviously you could get in trouble but you've already come this far and don't seem to have the problems these rules are designed to keep you out for.
I've for sure made errors before, but it's hard to say if ADHD was the cause of those errors. In the end everyone makes mistakes in their training, and I know lots of people that have fucked up far worse then I ever have.
And I understand it's somewhat irrational. Thank you and everyone who is telling me to keep on, I'll look in to speaking to a lawyer. I need to go through my medical records as well and see if I was ever officially diagnosed. You are all right I shouldn't give up so easily now.
I would still go for it. As long as you aren't still receiving treatment, if they find out you can have a doctor claim you are cured. (That's not how it actually works but the FAA thinks it does, so they will accept it.) You may have to pay thousands of $ to get the medical clearance, but it's doable. Like I said, the majority of pilots have ADHD, they either lie about it or don't know it.
You are way closer than I ever got. Literally wanted to be a pilot since I was like 6, have been playing flight sims all my life, literally loved flying so much I would play DCS and such with nothing but a mouse and keyboard. I learned how to fly a glider and ride the wind before I learned how to ride a bike.
But I'm completely nonfunctional in daily life without medication. I can drive, I can fly, but I can't consistently feed myself or sleep without it.
I'm on track to get a good union job, but if the FAA makes it possible I'm immediately dropping everything and getting my license. The day of I will start making phone calls if it happens. I can be twenty years in with pension and everything I don't care. If I was in your position I wouldn't hesitate to continue.
Yeah... I don't know. I've been wrestling with it for almost two years now. I kind of have a vision of a new way forward that doesn't involve flying, but of course it feels more like a compromise than something I actually want to do.
I just don't know how I live with that anxiety. I feel so ashamed of my adhd, of the fact I had to go to a fucking different school for it, of the fact I'd be living a lie if I tried flying again. I mean, you don't know imposter syndrome until you've stepped into my shoes.
It feels so much easier to just let it all go. I can still fly as a hobby, but obviously it's expensive, and just not the same.
The "what ifs" will probably haunt me for the rest of my life. Ironically my fear of being grounded led to me grounding myself. But at least I get to keep my secret.
Edit
Also I hope you get the chance one day. Do you have a sport pilot's license? Something you could look into if you want to fly powered aircraft. I don't believe microlights require a medical.
Not super interested in getting a sport pilots license if I would be practically speaking paying a ton of money to be only somewhat less restricted than I would be with an ultralight. Still may do so, but being able to get paid flying is the dream.
Yeah that's understandable. Maybe one day we won't have to worry as much, there has been more discussion surrounding mental health then ever before. I think everyone in the industry is aware of it. How do you get a bureaucratic monster like the FAA to change though? We'll see.
The world is slowly moving away from the FAA because of the disaster with the Boeing mcas stuff. And now the fact that they grounded all Russian designed aircraft by declaring then unsafe even though the justification was obvious bullshit and was actually done because of the Ukraine situation. So maybe this will light enough of a fire under their ass and make them realize they need to change.
They have been making genuine, although poorly executed attempts to be inclusive in a few ways, so maybe there is a chance.
Is it just the FAA? Are aviation regulation agencies in other countries better?
The laws in every other country can be summed up as "refer to the FAA". To the point English is the only language legal to speak on the radio outside China and Russia. And even then, it's only legal to speak Chinese on the radio for regional flights in China.
He summed it up well. I really wanted to fly in China as well, but the Chinese medical regs are actually among the most strict in the world. I had it ruled out long ago. There are decades long career pilots who go from the West to China and fail their medical.
I think it's less that and more like that old riddle of the surgeons around the operating table that all speak a language different from one another, but they're all doctors so they speak Latin to communicate.
You realize they all spoke Latin because of the lingering influence of the Roman empire, right?
Right?
Yes. Poo-poo on me for not considering that when relaying an anecdote about a Dutch (?) riddle from thirty years ago. Now, you did consider I'm a neurodivergent with memory and processing issues handling deep and technical subject matter (history) in a public forum in a thread about neurodivergents with memory and processing issues handling deep and technical subject matter (aerospace science) in the workplace, right?
Right?
I'm sorry if this is harsh, but to answer your question, no, I did not. I nor anybody else is going to ace things 100% of the time.
And to clarify, I'm not angry with you, I'm trying to illustrate to you how silly a thing to get onto someone about that is. Also, your post is a good illustration of the kinds of pedanticism and general goofiness from neurotypicals neurodivergents have to navigate on a daily basis that drives them to burnout, substance abuse, and exacerbated mental illness. There's a reason we all ran off to the woods away from the village, ate bark, and howled at the moon in the ancient times.
I apologize all the same. Sorry. Aren't most of us posting here neurodivergent, at any rate.
And I apologize as well, I'll admit it's a pet peeve of mine. I get itchy when I see what might be Vampire Castle stuff as I think it gets in the way of larger activism or constructive effort -- even just casually.
Like, so what if it does or doesn't come from imperialism, it's a system that works and keeps people safe by allowing pilots anywhere to communicate together immediately and better navigate their 100,000 Kg mechanized death-birds to an amazing extent. I just don't want to lose sight of what's important here.
And yes you're right, neurodivergent people are often naturally attracted to left-wing political theory. We probably are mostly ND here to some extent. Again, apologies.
When you go to war and every plane crashes because your entire fleet is suffering from untreated mental illness from the discriminatory rules you created. :ancap-good:
Shockingly common for navy and airforce pilots to come back with PTSD, become a commercial pilot, get caught receiving treatment at the VA and get their license pulled for it. There are doctors that specialize in treating people like that who will accept fake names and not report anything, do everything off the books.
when your medical system is so good people need to lie to perform tasks without killing everyone, because otherwise no one can perform the tasks and they are punished for trying to.
Wtf why can't we have autistic pilots :/
I bet a lot of em really want to and would be awesome at their job
Your special interest is knowing everything about planes. Unfit to fly.
yeah, isn't following the checklists and procedures pretty important?
I imagine sensitivity to light and sound might be their concern. But you literally wouldn't be able to get past training if it were an issue.
Sensory issues and overload are extremely dangerous for a pilot to have. As are issues handling stress in the moment. Don't know enough about autism to know if that is anywhere near an "automatically dq" level issue for people with autism, but I suspect it's not and in many cases it would be fine. I have many autistic friends and I know for many of them these issues would make them unfit to be a pilot, but I don't know if that is universal.
Autism is a spectrum, so it's definitely not universal. I agree that on the extreme end it would be disqualifying, I more meant that if it were in the extreme end it would likely be caught during training. Like I just don't see someone with extreme sensory issues making it to the point where they're flying a larger plane without anyone noticing. I understand that the mindset is take as little risk as possible when deciding who should be a pilot though.
They are insanely strict to the point of being completely unreasonable. If you attempt to get a commercial license and fail medical because you have any of those things I listed, the only thing you will ever be allowed to fly again is a drone. Can't even kill yourself in a single seater, it's illegal.
makes sense the rule applies equally to single seater. You can cause a lot of damage in the air, don't downplay that. The rule is unfair, but the application is not.
Relative to the risk, it is insanely restrictive. The sport pilot weight limit is around that of a Miata.
and it still becomes a chunk of steel falling through the sky when you screw up.
Which is still insanely unlikely to happen just because you have autism or anxiety or whatever. Like sure maybe there is a slightly higher chance based on zero investigation, (preliminary studies on ADHD pilots showed them to actually be safer on average) but the risk of collateral is higher with a car and your drivers license doesn't get revoked because you got prescribed prozac.
none of that is relevant, we were disucssing the application of the ban. I agree it's unfair, but if they deem it unsafe to fly a large craft it is also unsafe to fly a small craft.
Yeah ok I didn't think about sensory issues. I have that problem although it isn't crippling for me, I could imagine how that could mess with flying. I hope some people who can handle the sensory stuff don't get discriminated against when trying to fly :/
Aren’t a huge proportion of commercial pilots hard drinkers / party guys as well
Yes, but it's only a problem if you go to the doctor for it :think-about-it:
Hm. You'd think being a pilot would be one of those professions where having ADHD wouldn't help.
It's just the opposite actually. There are so many things to keep track of that interact with each other in real time ADHD makes it easier. The name is super outdated and not an accurate description of what it is, the only reason it is still used is there are legal protections for people with "ADD and ADHD", but there are no legal protections for people with whatever new name they would use instead.
Ah that makes sense. To be honest I really don't know much about ADHD, I'm still operating under the old presumption that it's when you can't concentrate, hence why I thought it'd be a bad fit for a pilot.
It's less you can't pay attention and more you have trouble focusing on a task that doesn't sufficiently stimulate you, but when you do you hyperfocus on that task and turn into the Terminator.
Plus various other associated symptoms like Rejection Sensitive Dysphoria, sexual dysfunctions, masking, among several others, and common comorbidity with other conditions.
All those different buttons, knobs and display screens, and they all do different things! ADHD heaven :chefs-kiss:
Plus you get to say cool stuff on the radio while pressing the buttons.
And you get to wear unique clothes that are already picked out for you in the morning, so instead of worrying about your outfit, you can just focus on brushing your teeth and showering to get out the door (flight suits are amazing, too, they're fireproof footy pajamas). Also, these clothes have a specifically encoded social meaning that spares you from having to communicate aspects of your character and occupation like a neurotypical.
"V.A.S.T." is commonly used outside North America. "Variable Attentiveness Stimulus Trait." Not only is it a better descriptor, but telling a kid (or adult) they're deficient or disordered when diagnosed can be pretty hard on them.
FAA sucks in general, I recently was involved in buying a bankrupt airline and launching a new one so I own 2,% of each - they're generally involved in approving the use of any internally developed or commercial-of-the-shelf software that's to be used in critical flight operations.
Somehow they approved for use a terrible piece of software developed by one guy in 2004 in a WYSIWYG/VB-esque language that's so uncommon I don't want this comment appearing at the top of the Google results for its name and doxing me... and getting anything new approved by them is an absolute nightmare so we're probably going to be using this absolute piece of shit to run not only the airline we bought that has a bunch of 10-15 seaters with cargo for short haul flights in a particular geographic area, but also for a fleet of 757s that are going to do trans-Pacific flights daily...
