Roger Waters is very dumb but dumb people tend to like him because he says some things they like. So what happens when he 'debates' an even dumber liberal on...
Roger Waters - Comfortably Numb, Bad Empanada - Confident and Dumb
I literally just want to not see the words ultra or anarkiddy on this website, I don’t expect people to change their views, there are clearly other places for that
Anarkiddie I get but ultras have literally always broadly been critiqued by virtually the whole of the left. It’s basically no different than critique liberals especially when what they’re espousing is state dept serving (indirectly or otherwise) chauvinism.
it is a short hand for being sectarian against maoists mzt hoxhaists and anti revisonists left comma anarchists specifically it is used specifically for those tendencies when people say it,
I'm confused. Are we using this to refer specifically to Deng-era ideology and up to before Xi? The way I see it discussed, Xi is held in high regard mainly as a leader and XJT is seen as a relatively small addition to MZT overall, and the only people who would claim to be MZT but specifically not XJT are weird imperial periphery neoliberals who I know exist in China but I have literally never seen in one of these online spaces.
I’m am talking about the current party, do you not know there are multiple factions in it… there are people you want to not take the course of Xi and revert to Mao era policies, it’s not just a consensus, there’s like 10 factions …
As far as I know, people concerned with implementing Mao era policies would be more accurately described as Maoists, since MZT would be more accurately described as accounting for Mao's theoretical contributions and a small portion of his policies but not really the bulk of them (and also a bit of a patina for Deng's right-deviation).
MLM groups identified as MZT before Gonzalo, it probably has more than one definition, I meant in the maoist way, but some people mean only MLM when they say maoists, it's confusing
I mean in some cases maybe, but maoists don’t exactly have the best track record and could probably do with some critiquing.
Mzt is generally pretty popular here so it’s definitely not that
And honestly calling everyone that doesn’t follow a prescribed ultra doctrine “revisionist” (i.e. actually responding to the material conditions which is a fundamental part of Marxism) and yourself anti-revisionist is kinda sectarian in itself lol
I for one have never called anyone here or anyone else not here a revionist or tankie or whatever other dunk/own, or even wanted to, it’s really not that hard
Again I don’t think tolerating anti-aes and chauvinist views is worth the moral superiority of being “anti-sectarian” this is basically the tolerance paradox for socialists. All the solidarity to socialists of all stripes but I don’t think allowing chauvinist elements into the broad left is good and they should be critiqued and spoken out against
You have to agree with the premise it was chauvinist, and that is for sure up for debate, unless you’re the authority on what is chauvinist, if the other posters above decided on that this would literally just be GZD
Yeah I believe this is what the kids call “having a take.” Chauvinism in general is complicated subject and obviously there’s gonna be different pov. Chasing some kind of universal agreeance is fruitless and kinda lib tbh and gutless fence sitting. Generally it’s taken to mean supporting western imperialist nations bc of taking their view on something as the default. And that is generally to me, not worth allowing in the space.
We can have a lot of arguments about whether you and I are correct but that we can debate it doesn’t justify tolerating it. We can debate all kinds of shit that we generally take to be bad. Should we allow pro-landlord takes here bc whether it’s bad or good is “up for debate”? Certainly you and I aren’t the arbiter of what is universally true in any circumstance.
I agree, I just think tossing arounds ultras to people the left of you you don’t like is just as childish and dumb as libs throwing around tankies to people to the left of them they don’t like and should be pushed back on
I literally just want to not see the words ultra or anarkiddy on this website, I don’t expect people to change their views, there are clearly other places for that
Anarkiddie I get but ultras have literally always broadly been critiqued by virtually the whole of the left. It’s basically no different than critique liberals especially when what they’re espousing is state dept serving (indirectly or otherwise) chauvinism.
it is a short hand for being sectarian against maoists mzt hoxhaists and anti revisonists left comma anarchists specifically it is used specifically for those tendencies when people say it,
Not at all. The PRC is (or claims to be, since you might contest it) MZT.
I meant mzt as in the ideology in the Cpc you can call traditional marxists as opposed to innovative marxism or XJP thought
I'm confused. Are we using this to refer specifically to Deng-era ideology and up to before Xi? The way I see it discussed, Xi is held in high regard mainly as a leader and XJT is seen as a relatively small addition to MZT overall, and the only people who would claim to be MZT but specifically not XJT are weird imperial periphery neoliberals who I know exist in China but I have literally never seen in one of these online spaces.
I’m am talking about the current party, do you not know there are multiple factions in it… there are people you want to not take the course of Xi and revert to Mao era policies, it’s not just a consensus, there’s like 10 factions …
As far as I know, people concerned with implementing Mao era policies would be more accurately described as Maoists, since MZT would be more accurately described as accounting for Mao's theoretical contributions and a small portion of his policies but not really the bulk of them (and also a bit of a patina for Deng's right-deviation).
MLM groups identified as MZT before Gonzalo, it probably has more than one definition, I meant in the maoist way, but some people mean only MLM when they say maoists, it's confusing
I mean in some cases maybe, but maoists don’t exactly have the best track record and could probably do with some critiquing.
Mzt is generally pretty popular here so it’s definitely not that
And honestly calling everyone that doesn’t follow a prescribed ultra doctrine “revisionist” (i.e. actually responding to the material conditions which is a fundamental part of Marxism) and yourself anti-revisionist is kinda sectarian in itself lol
I for one have never called anyone here or anyone else not here a revionist or tankie or whatever other dunk/own, or even wanted to, it’s really not that hard
Again I don’t think tolerating anti-aes and chauvinist views is worth the moral superiority of being “anti-sectarian” this is basically the tolerance paradox for socialists. All the solidarity to socialists of all stripes but I don’t think allowing chauvinist elements into the broad left is good and they should be critiqued and spoken out against
You have to agree with the premise it was chauvinist, and that is for sure up for debate, unless you’re the authority on what is chauvinist, if the other posters above decided on that this would literally just be GZD
didn’t critically support chauvinist
didn’t call China socialist chauvinist
etc etc
Yeah I believe this is what the kids call “having a take.” Chauvinism in general is complicated subject and obviously there’s gonna be different pov. Chasing some kind of universal agreeance is fruitless and kinda lib tbh and gutless fence sitting. Generally it’s taken to mean supporting western imperialist nations bc of taking their view on something as the default. And that is generally to me, not worth allowing in the space.
We can have a lot of arguments about whether you and I are correct but that we can debate it doesn’t justify tolerating it. We can debate all kinds of shit that we generally take to be bad. Should we allow pro-landlord takes here bc whether it’s bad or good is “up for debate”? Certainly you and I aren’t the arbiter of what is universally true in any circumstance.
I agree, I just think tossing arounds ultras to people the left of you you don’t like is just as childish and dumb as libs throwing around tankies to people to the left of them they don’t like and should be pushed back on