Democratic Congress members and Anti-Defamation league censure Michigan lawmaker for saying 'you cannot claim to hold progressive values yet back Israel’s apartheid'
I'm trying to convince hardcore Israeli supporters and while I'm at it, neutrals. You can spout all the atrocities you like and they'll just say "Hamas deserved it" or some other such nonsense. I need to draw explicit links between South African apartheid and Israeli apartheid, ideally using Israel's own laws. Failing that, videos of hardcore Israelis saying shit like "fuck yeah we have apartheid and it's great."
You're not going to convince hardcore israeli supporters. People like that typically hold political beliefs not because they're true or false, but because of material interests. If it is in their perceived material interests to support Israel, they will, regardless of how bad they are. But read Norm Finkelstein and Ilan Pappe.
Here's some heart-wrenching videos if you're talking to people whose hearts can be wrenched.
Again. I stress "de facto" versus "de jure" here. Israel doesn't need laws literally saying "we do apartheid!" They just need to impose something like apartheid through physical force. Legal-brained liberals only care about de jure oppression. If the state is capable of violently enforcing oppression without legal backing, it will! Bourgeois laws aren't enforced on the ruling class! Constitutional protections don't apply to oppressed groups!
All of that is just oppression. Those videos could have been taken in Chile during Pinochet or Philippines during Marcos. I don't think people have done the work to understand what apartheid actually is, and just equate it to "something bad" in their brains.
I'm trying to gather evidence of Israeli apartheid to save for the next time this comes up and yet all I'm getting is "they're mean to the Palestinians".
The biggest ones are that the West Bank and Gaza are subject to Israeli martial law and have their borders and territory regulated by the state of Israel without the Palestinians within those territories receiving enfranchisement in the Israeli political system or their parliamentary system; there is no recourse for Palestinians to "sue" Israelis or the state of Israel for civil or criminal offenses.
You can also point out that the state of Israel and Israelis displace and dispossess the Palestinians living in the West Bank through buildings of settlements - de facto annexing the West Bank - and Palestinians having no civil or political remedies outside of violence and protests. They're being expelled from their homes and being forced to live in squalor, poverty, and immiseration to be dependent upon being cheap labor for Israel. A pseudo-serfdom as it were.
I'm going to assume good faith of you and tell you that if you are looking for comprehensive academic sources and primary evidence from this website/forum, you're gambling your time in either antagonizing others or simply not receiving satisfactory information and resources for your personal audience. If you are or were in undergraduate studies, invoke those skills to investigate for your own sake on the internet.
but it's not de jure and explicitly sanctioned in legalese by the perpetrators so the OP of this thread won't find it a compelling enough example, you see :yes-honey-left:
"it's bad but it's not the exact word according to this very limited definition i have decided to impose" :very-intelligent:
glad you agree it's bad. Have you ever heard of a "de facto" vs. "de jure" distinction. They have de facto apartheid.
I'm trying to convince hardcore Israeli supporters and while I'm at it, neutrals. You can spout all the atrocities you like and they'll just say "Hamas deserved it" or some other such nonsense. I need to draw explicit links between South African apartheid and Israeli apartheid, ideally using Israel's own laws. Failing that, videos of hardcore Israelis saying shit like "fuck yeah we have apartheid and it's great."
You're not going to convince hardcore israeli supporters. People like that typically hold political beliefs not because they're true or false, but because of material interests. If it is in their perceived material interests to support Israel, they will, regardless of how bad they are. But read Norm Finkelstein and Ilan Pappe.
Here's some heart-wrenching videos if you're talking to people whose hearts can be wrenched.
A Palestinian man lists all the family members he lost when IDF bombed his home.
A 10 year old girl breaks down after air strikes destroyed her neighbors' home
Israeli lynch mob and police breaking into a palestinian home in Haifa
IDF attacking and harrassing Palestinian medics trying to do their job, repeatedly dumping an injured man off of a stretcher
IDF disguising themselves among palestinian protesters, begin firing from inside the crowd
Jewish American Activist beaten by Israeli police for supporting Palestinians
Palestinian woman describes how she had her phone seized for filming IDF beating a child
Again. I stress "de facto" versus "de jure" here. Israel doesn't need laws literally saying "we do apartheid!" They just need to impose something like apartheid through physical force. Legal-brained liberals only care about de jure oppression. If the state is capable of violently enforcing oppression without legal backing, it will! Bourgeois laws aren't enforced on the ruling class! Constitutional protections don't apply to oppressed groups!
All of that is just oppression. Those videos could have been taken in Chile during Pinochet or Philippines during Marcos. I don't think people have done the work to understand what apartheid actually is, and just equate it to "something bad" in their brains.
i think you're concern trolling at this point.
I'm trying to gather evidence of Israeli apartheid to save for the next time this comes up and yet all I'm getting is "they're mean to the Palestinians".
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The biggest ones are that the West Bank and Gaza are subject to Israeli martial law and have their borders and territory regulated by the state of Israel without the Palestinians within those territories receiving enfranchisement in the Israeli political system or their parliamentary system; there is no recourse for Palestinians to "sue" Israelis or the state of Israel for civil or criminal offenses.
You can also point out that the state of Israel and Israelis displace and dispossess the Palestinians living in the West Bank through buildings of settlements - de facto annexing the West Bank - and Palestinians having no civil or political remedies outside of violence and protests. They're being expelled from their homes and being forced to live in squalor, poverty, and immiseration to be dependent upon being cheap labor for Israel. A pseudo-serfdom as it were.
I'm going to assume good faith of you and tell you that if you are looking for comprehensive academic sources and primary evidence from this website/forum, you're gambling your time in either antagonizing others or simply not receiving satisfactory information and resources for your personal audience. If you are or were in undergraduate studies, invoke those skills to investigate for your own sake on the internet.
but it's not de jure and explicitly sanctioned in legalese by the perpetrators so the OP of this thread won't find it a compelling enough example, you see :yes-honey-left:
Shut the fuck up
You're never going to convince them. They don't want to be convinced and will willfully ignore evidence that is contrary to their position.