even as she doubles down on her antisemitism by slandering Israel as an apartheid state
Wow. That… I have no fucking words.
South African apartheid regime's big mistake in retrospect seems to have been not enough gaslighting
In 2010, The Guardian released South African government documents that revealed an Israeli offer to sell the apartheid regime nuclear weapons. Israel denied these allegations and claimed that the documents were minutes from a meeting which did not indicate any concrete offer for a sale of nuclear weapons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apartheid#Israeli_arms_sales
doubles down on her antisemitism by slandering Israel as an apartheid state
:what-the-hell:
That reads like a chanbrain claiming that it's reverse-racist that schools are teaching that slavery was bad and not some sacred western institution.
Means Morning News did a great job on this story today, here's a quote from the conclusion of the story:
"Tlaib never said anything about Israel's right to exist; she was talking specifically about the policies of the current Israeli government and how they amount to apartheid and should be opposed. And none of the criticisms against her actually address that point. They all just pretended like Israel isn't practicing apartheid. I will go a step further than Tlaib, though, and say that, actually, nations don't have a fundamental right to exist if they don't have the consent of those who live within their borders to exist."
Yeah, they deliberately misinterpreted it and turned it into an argument they could win.
It's actually encouraging to know that they don't actually have any points to refute apartheid. They have to do this, because they have no other choice.
I've heard some, they're even weaker than the deflections though... Palestinians can gain Israeli citizenship or something...
nations don’t have a fundamental right to exist
if they don’t have the consent of those who live within their borders to exist.”
insane what a strangehold this issue has, particularly on the democrats. That they jump over themselves to censure POC slightly to the left of them is especially grim.
The Intercept fact-checks this claim: https://theintercept.com/2022/09/22/rashida-tlaib-israel-adl/
Lmao the intercept going full debate nerd on these “progressives”.
The United Nations general assembly voted overwhelmingly on Thursday to recognise Palestine as a state, in the face of opposition from Israel and the US.
The 193-member assembly voted 138 in favour of the plan, with only nine against and 41 abstentions. The scale of the defeat represented a strong and public repudiation for Israel and the US, who find themselves out of step with the rest of the world.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_resolution_67/19
If you ever doubt Israel is a settler-colonial apartheid state, simply look at the
UN vote on recognizing Palestinian statehoodUS "non-profits" that get money to recruit every guy in Brooklyn named Ephraim to move to the Golan Heights and evict a Palestinian family through an internationally condemned process (even by the US in meaningless words alone).https://www.haaretz.com/2015-12-07/ty-article/.premium/following-the-money-that-supports-israeli-settlements/0000017f-f988-dcea-a7ff-fdba579e0000
motherfucker what do you think apartheid is
"oh that's just oppression" lmao get out :jesse-wtf:
Yeah. It's great that Palestinian rights being defended is now being normalized but this by itself does nothing materially. If anything, it shows the establishment's intent.
lib loremaster
:geordi-yes: potentially good username tho
literally 6+ years of the left referring to them as "trump's name for them" umm ok :jesse-wtf:
Where is the evidence that Israel practices apartheid? I don't mean HRW reports or that nonsense. I mean, the actual laws of Israel. I keep pointing out the apartheid and I keep getting denied by people who call me an anti-Semite. Amnesty International and the usual suspects won't be accepted by them as a source as they'll just call them anti-Semites too.
Read "The Biggest Prison on Earth: A History of the Occupied Territories " by Ilan Pappe. He's Israeli. He's Jewish. He's willing to condemn Israel's apartheid. TL;DR Israel has segregation down to the highway system. Raw sewage gets pumped into the swimming waters of the gaza strip. Palestinians in the gaza strip are constantly being rationed electricity to only a few hours a day. Their apartments are bombed with impunity. Lynch mobs go door to door hurting palestinians sometimes. There is nonstop annexation of Palestinian territory with new settlements. "Apartheid" is frankly generous. It's been a slow motion genocide since 1948. Zionism started in the 1800s as a desire for European Jews to escape European antisemitism but they decided on annexing lands people already lived in so it became a genocidal settler-colonial project with Western backing.
None of that is apartheid, though. Apartheid is stuff like not being able to buy land because it's a white area.
"it's bad but it's not the exact word according to this very limited definition i have decided to impose" :very-intelligent:
glad you agree it's bad. Have you ever heard of a "de facto" vs. "de jure" distinction. They have de facto apartheid.
I'm trying to convince hardcore Israeli supporters and while I'm at it, neutrals. You can spout all the atrocities you like and they'll just say "Hamas deserved it" or some other such nonsense. I need to draw explicit links between South African apartheid and Israeli apartheid, ideally using Israel's own laws. Failing that, videos of hardcore Israelis saying shit like "fuck yeah we have apartheid and it's great."
You're not going to convince hardcore israeli supporters. People like that typically hold political beliefs not because they're true or false, but because of material interests. If it is in their perceived material interests to support Israel, they will, regardless of how bad they are. But read Norm Finkelstein and Ilan Pappe.
Here's some heart-wrenching videos if you're talking to people whose hearts can be wrenched.
A Palestinian man lists all the family members he lost when IDF bombed his home.
A 10 year old girl breaks down after air strikes destroyed her neighbors' home
Israeli lynch mob and police breaking into a palestinian home in Haifa
IDF disguising themselves among palestinian protesters, begin firing from inside the crowd
Jewish American Activist beaten by Israeli police for supporting Palestinians
Palestinian woman describes how she had her phone seized for filming IDF beating a child
Again. I stress "de facto" versus "de jure" here. Israel doesn't need laws literally saying "we do apartheid!" They just need to impose something like apartheid through physical force. Legal-brained liberals only care about de jure oppression. If the state is capable of violently enforcing oppression without legal backing, it will! Bourgeois laws aren't enforced on the ruling class! Constitutional protections don't apply to oppressed groups!
All of that is just oppression. Those videos could have been taken in Chile during Pinochet or Philippines during Marcos. I don't think people have done the work to understand what apartheid actually is, and just equate it to "something bad" in their brains.
I’m trying to convince hardcore Israeli supporters
You're never going to convince them. They don't want to be convinced and will willfully ignore evidence that is contrary to their position.
Look at a map.
The area controlled by the Palestinian state is divided into tiny Bantustans, surrounded by hostile Zionist occupation forces. It is like that now and it has been like that in every "peace plan" for the last few decades. Neither the Zionists nor their backers in the US have any intentions of ever letting Palestinians control enough of their own country to have a sovereign, functioning state.
Not just bantustans. Bantustans that look like swiss cheese, with Jewish settlements taking increasing amounts of the land every year.
Well, one aspect is that, as the article mentions is that Israel has declared itself a "Jewish State". That's a problem when a majority of your population (when you include the West Bank and Gaza) or a sizeable minority (excluding those two regions) are explicitly not Jewish / Palestinian. Just imagine if apartheid South Africa claimed they were a "white ethnostate"?
Also, maybe more to your point, Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza are not allowed to vote in Israeli elections despite not having meaningful autonomy (ostensibly the reason Israel disenfranchises them). This conveniently makes Palestinians the voting minority in Israel where otherwise they would be the majority without this one weird trick. If that's not apartheid I don't know what is.
nope, they're the united states' ally against scary brown people, so anything goes.
This is the wrong approach. Even if Israel had an explicit law called the "Apartheid the Palestinians Law", those people would still call you an anti-semite for pointing it out.
yeah imagine thinking you could use facts and logic to change this guy's mind
UN report called Israel an apartheid state (the report can be read here) but Israel was able to apply enough pressure to get the report withdrawn
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-report/israel-imposes-apartheid-regime-on-palestinians-u-n-report-idUSKBN16M2IN
http://opiniojuris.org/2017/03/19/the-disappearing-un-report-on-israeli-apartheid/
That Israeli law declaring it an ethnostate: https://www.npr.org/2018/07/19/630368973/israel-passes-controversial-law-reserving-national-self-determination-for-jews
And the Prime Minister at the time taking to "social media" to affirm its intention:
“Israel is not a state of all its citizens,” he wrote in response to criticism from an Israeli actor, Rotem Sela. “According to the basic nationality law we passed, Israel is the nation state of the Jewish people – and only it. As you wrote, there is no problem with the Arab citizens of Israel. They have equal rights like all of us and the Likud government has invested more in the Arab sector than any other government,” he said of his rightwing party.
As the comments caused waves in Israel, Netanyahu again spoke of the issue at the start of a cabinet meeting. He called Israel a “Jewish, democratic state” with equal rights, but “the nation state not of all its citizens but only of the Jewish people”.
Obviously self-contradicting drivel at best, at worst a confession that Palestinians would have just been gassed instead of relegated to an open air prison if not for the international attention. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/10/benjamin-netanyahu-says-israel-is-not-a-state-of-all-its-citizens
Sorry for giving an incomplete answer at best, but one thing that comes to mind is the IDF and the extremely different recruitment rules for Orthodox Jews, Non-ortho Jews, Non-Jews, and Arabs.
MFW I'm not a real progressive because I don't hate every single Muslim or Arab in existence.
Welp, I'm off to being a lolbertarian again, it was fun comrades.
:libertarian-approaching:
