Removed by mod
Russia Kidnapping Ukrainian Children, AP Report Claims.
Removed by modThousands of children have been found in the basements of war-torn cities like Mariupol and at orphanages in the Russian-backed separatist territories of Donbas. They include those whose parents were killed by Russian shelling as well as others in institutions or with foster families, known as “children of the state.”
Russia claims that these children don’t have parents or guardians to look after them, or that they can’t be reached. But the AP found that officials have deported Ukrainian children to Russia or Russian-held territories without consent, lied to them that they weren’t wanted by their parents, used them for propaganda, and given them Russian families and citizenship.
The investigation is the most extensive to date on the grab of Ukrainian children, and the first to follow the process all the way to those already growing up in Russia. The AP drew from dozens of interviews with parents, children and officials in both Ukraine and Russia; emails and letters; Russian documents and Russian state media.
Whether or not they have parents, raising the children of war in another country or culture can be a marker of genocide, an attempt to erase the very identity of an enemy nation.
Even where parents are dead, Rapp said, their children must be sheltered, fostered or adopted in Ukraine rather than deported to Russia.
Russian law prohibits the adoption of foreign children. But in May, Putin signed a decree making it easier for Russia to adopt and give citizenship to Ukrainian children without parental care — and harder for Ukraine and surviving relatives to win them back.
Russia also has prepared a register of suitable Russian families for Ukrainian children, and pays them for each child who gets citizenship — up to $1,000 for those with disabilities. It holds summer camps for Ukrainian orphans, offers “patriotic education” classes and even runs a hotline to pair Russian families with children from Donbas.
“It is absolutely a terrible story,” said Petro Andryushchenko, an adviser to the Mariupol mayor, who claims hundreds of children were taken from that city alone. “We don’t know if our children have an official parent or (stepparents) or something else because they are forcibly disappeared by Russian troops.”
Russia portrays its adoption of Ukrainian children as an act of generosity that gives new homes and medical resources to helpless minors. Russian state media shows local officials hugging and kissing them and handing them Russian passports.
It’s very hard to pin down the exact number of Ukrainian children deported to Russia — Ukrainian officials claim nearly 8,000. Russia hasn’t given an overall number, but officials regularly announce the arrival of Ukrainian orphans in Russian military planes.
In March, Russian children’s rights ombudswoman Maria Lvova-Belova said more than 1,000 children from Ukraine were in Russia. Over the summer, she said 120 Russian families had applied for guardianship, and more than 130 Ukrainian children had received Russian citizenship. Many more have come since, including a batch of 234 in early October.
She acknowledged that at first, a group of 30 children brought to Russia from the basements of Mariupol defiantly sang the Ukrainian national anthem and shouted, “Glory to Ukraine!” But now, she said, their criticism has been “transformed into a love for Russia,” and she herself has taken one in, a teenager.
The children of Mariupol aren’t the first Russia has been accused of stealing from Ukraine.
In 2014, after Russia annexed the Crimean Peninsula, more than 80 children from Luhansk were stopped at checkpoints and abducted. Ukraine sued, and the European Court of Human Rights found the children were taken into Russia “without medical support or the necessary paperwork.” The children were returned to Ukraine before a final decision.
Kateryna Rashevska, a human rights defender, said she knows of about 30 Ukrainian children from Crimea adopted by Russians under a program known as Train of Hope. Now, she said, some of those children might well be Russian soldiers. Since 2015, the Young Army Cadets national movement has trained youth in Crimea and Russia for potential recruitment into the military.
This time around, at least 96 children have been returned to Ukraine since March after negotiations. But Ukrainian officials have tracked down the identities of thousands more in Russia, and the names of many others simply aren’t published.
Ok so you’re against giving kids to their families within Ukraine becuase they might be lying and it’s hundreds of kilometers away. Fair.
But you don’t have a problem with taking kids away from their homes (which you bombed) into a different country also thousands of kilomenters away, giving them to people who are literally complete strangers?
It's Mariupol. These are russian children with russian parents who have lived in a city that specifically had nazi paramilitaries installed there to ensure they don't step out of line again after they tried to kick Ukraine out of their city 7 years ago.
these kids are being taken from their homes (which were bombed) and brought into Russia, to be adopted by Russian families. That is fucked.
oh it's just a bot.
Sure.
Russia and Ukraine are lines drawn on a map. Many of the people in Eastern Ukraine are ethnically and linguistically Russians and are only considered Ukrainian in so far as that's the nation-state the owns and administers the region they live in. A large part of why this war kicked off was Western Ukrainian nationalists oppressing, or trying to repress, Eastern Ukrainians of Russian ethnicity. A lot of orpahns are probably ethnically and linguistically Russian, and sending them to orphanages in Western Ukraine where that Russian identity would be forced out of them would be a form of ethnic cleansing.
This war is much, much more complicated than the news would suggest. The ethnic-conflict is pretty much invisible in Western Media because it needlessly complicated the "Ukraine righteous and noble, Russia evil and profane" narrative.
Yeah, that's a possibility. All borders are fake and areas on either side of the border between two countries usually have way more in common with each other than people on the other side of their own country.
There's another important thing unsaid - There are a lot of ethnic Russians in the Donbas. Like millions of them. They're ethnically Russian, they speak Russian as their first and primary language, and they're only Ukrainian because they happened to be living on that side of the border when the Ukrainian SSR collapsed. It's very likely that a lot of orphans in eastern Ukraine have family in Russia.
That's possible, and might be true in some circumstances, but I doubt its true for all the cases or even the majority. USSR collapsed 30 years ago, after all. Maybe if we had more sources and both sides were actually open and transparent about what was happening, it would be better. So far, that's not been the case and I doubt that'll change. We'll probably only learn the true extent of what is going on years (or even decades) after the war has ended.
Yes, but the borders between Russia and Ukraine were largely formalities up until 2014. Many Ukrainians have family in both Russia and Ukraine and travel between them was common and routine. This issue is particularly prone to being propagandized as it involves children and can somewhat credibly be tied in to the generally farcical idea that Russia intends to commit or is committing genocide. Just omitting any mention that many people in Eastern Ukraine are Russian changes the story from a complicated narrative about the difficulties facing war orphans to a one sided narrative where Russia is kidnapping children.
In broad strokes what they describe is likely happening - Russia is transporting children from war torn cities to safer areas and finding housing and shelter for them. But the article categorizes this entirely as kidnapping, removing any possible nuance or complexity from the story and rendering it purely propaganda. Even simple qualifications, like the possibility that children might be temporarily separated from relatives who fled Ukraine to Russia as refugees, are entirely missing. The numbers are also rather questionable - 8,000 children are supposedly missing, but only 130ish families are involved in caring for the children Russia has kidnapped? And for that matter where does the 8,000 number come from. Eastern Ukraine has been in turmoil since the Donbas war started, and it's only gotten dramatically worse since the invasion. There are millions of Ukrainians who have fled the country as refugees, both to the west and Europe, but also to Russia to escape persecution and violence from the Kiev regime.
There's just not much useful information in the article. The claims it makes are not well supported or elaborated on and the things that are specifically omitted very clearly demonstrate the biases and purposes of the article.
You raise valid points.
Ukrainians hiding in the basement- May 28
Ukrainians shoot at the feet of civilians who try to flee Mariupol
Nazis wouldn't let people out of the basements in Mariupol
Her mother was burned alive inside a building the Nazis used as "defensive point" because they wouldn't allow her to leave
Azov goes into basements and kills, rapes people
“We were taking out the garbage, there were Ukrainian soldiers there. They told us not to dare to leave the cellars and threatened to shoot us. I asked one of them “will you shoot a child?”, And he answered me, “if I am ordered, I will kill my child too,” Victoria said.
You get the idea, Do you have telegram? If not then you may not be able to see some of those videos. Those are real people giving interviews, they are not even Russian.
So lets just say even one of the stories I'm linking here are "true". This is just the tip of the icerbeg there are probably hundreds of telegram posts documenting the shit that went down in Mariupol.
But lets just say even 10% of what the "pro-Russian" channels posts is true. Then I think that none of those children are going to be thanking you 20 years in the future when they learn what realy happened in Mariupol and how instead of being sent somewhere safe they were forced to go back to the "correct" side.
In an ideal world I think Russia should be open to negotiating some sort of investigation after a peace treaty, but we are still potentially years away from that. Right now imo every good argument in favor of the Ukrainian position is countered by the fact Ukrainian society realy didn't seem to give any shit about what was going on in the ethinicaly Russian part of the country, and the Ukrainian government incorporated the same Nazis that committed these crimes against these children and their families.
So turning back around now and crying about these children seems incredibly hypocritical.
ill look through these.
Women from Mariupol documenting the Azov attrocities.
Realy as I said even if 10% of what the Russians post is true...
Unnecessary and other-ing.
Also it is described below that the person in charge connects them to relatives and such when possible. I see the problem, but I consider getting the kids out of a warzone top priority, since this war won't stop until it's finished. As I stated before, I consider it critical that such services are immediately streamlined and protected to make sure no kids fall through the gaps, and that your document link may lean to something more. But first things first, survival.
The main claim that remains, imo, is that Ukraine claims Russia isn't returning the vast majority of children it took. We'll probably only find out the truth after the war is long over, if we ever find out the truth. Till then, it might be best to just say there are an unknown number of Ukrainian orphans in Russia in the aftermath of the war who aren't able to return home.
To be fair, Ukraine will say whatever it needs to justify further total war. Of course they can't return kids to parts of Ukraine as it is currently highly active as a war zone. If its not soon, the pushes in December/January will make it such. There's also no telling how Ukraine would treat these kids. They may use them as propaganda, and not even give them back to their families. Many Children are that of Russian descent living in the donbass region, which was being bombed and burned for 8 years past by the Ukrainian Nazi-loving government, and would likely be at risk by the government. The Ukraine government has also been linked to bombings of their own civilians and refugees to further increase war justification, so these kids could just be killed by them to do more of the same.
Yeah thats possible too.